Apolyton Civ4 PREVIEW (By Solver) - Part 2 online

[yin26]

I will say this, though: If ICS requires the kind of thought and planning I think it might, then it's not really the "mindless" thing I was talking about. In fact, it's suddenly strategy!

And this, my friend, just won't stand!

[ajbera]

Solver, the stats screenie lists some units as killed, others as lost. What's the distinction between the two?

edit: ignore my stupidity. Lost is your losses, killed is the number you've slain.

[Solver]

Killed = enemy units killed. Lost = units I lost.

I will say this, though: If ICS requires the kind of thought and planning I think it might, then it's not really the "mindless" thing I was talking about. In fact, it's suddenly strategy!

I assure you, if it's possible at all (of which I am very doubtful), then it will certainly require a lot of thought and planning, just because there's no way to do it easily - no way to do ICS that anyone has found so far.

[Mudhut]

Re: Re: Only 4 golden ages?

Originally posted by RobC


This is possible:

1st GA: 1 great prophet, 1 great artist
2nd GA: 1 great prophet, 1 great artist, 1 great engineer
3rd GA: 1 great prophet, 1 great artist, 1 great engineer, 1 great scientist

...

So I think theoretically the last GA you could get would be the 5th GA, with one of every type of great person:

1 great prophet, 1 great artist, 1 great engineer, 1 great scientist, 1 great merchant

Wouldn't this be the FOURTH golden age?

Regardless, if Solver has never triggered more than 1 GA in all his Beta Testing, it probably just isn't likely that this is worth doing.

This makes a lot of sense: all the Betas seem to say there is a balanced decision about what to do with your first Great Person (get tech, settle in city, build something etc). At this point you are comparing all these options with getting a Two-person Golden age.

Later in the game you're comparing these same options against a three or four person Golden age, you can see that this option becomes relatively less attractive.

The only exception would be if subsequent golden ages scaled - ie they lasted longer or were more powerful or something.

B.

[yin26]

Solver:

Frankly, that would still make me happy. I think thoughtful (even risky) expansion is great and meets the spirit if not the letter of the bet on this point. But you have said that you do not like to exploit games such as this, so surely you would give the public some time to find exploits. And by exploits, I don't mean something cheap (finding some infinite gold bug or something), but I do mean running game mechanics in a way that some people might not consider fair or fun.

After all, beating the AI is not my goal. Beating top players is, and they will leverage every game mechanic to their favor. I don't think this was your goal in your review (nor should it have been).

[Solver]

You're right - I have tried to stretch the game mechanics for purposes of beta-testing, but generally, I don't do that. What would I view as an exploit? Using something that is unintentionally in the game, or findind an AI weakness/bug and using that against it. For example, how in Civ3 you could make sure it would never attack a city by shifting units back in and out.

[yin26]

...whispers to Solver : But even the things I'm thinking of won't produce anything like the ICS mess we've seen before, so, frankly, I'm quite impressed to this point. Worried for my stomach but impressed.

[Protra3211]

I feel the conerstone of the civ experience is the diplomacy. Its what makes or breaks the game for me.
I didnt care for the diplomacy in Civ3 as it seemed the AI was always ready to gang up on you.
I hope Civilization 4 will allow more time to keep peace between you and the AI.
I know that depends on what kind of nations in the game and personalities of the leaders like in CtP2
At least at the start of the game you (features you have shown) will have many options to find what works best.

[Spiffor]

Very interesting preview. The specialist system seems very promising. Thanks Solver

[Harovan]

Very good preview, thanks!

[Ninot]

I'd like to know if Yin is currently expecting civ 2.7 like he has previously said, a civ 3, or something beyond that?

[ajbera]

Solver, regarding the U.N., are all civs automatically members after it's built?

Also, the builder becomes the Sec Gen, gets to propose 3 referendums, and then another election for Sec Gen is held, and winner of the election wins the diplomatic victory?

[Sirian]

Re: Re: Re: Only 4 golden ages?

Originally posted by Mudhut

if Solver has never triggered more than 1 GA in all his Beta Testing, it probably just isn't likely that this is worth doing.

Golden age benefits scale to number of cities, while it looks like most of these other effects do not. The multiple golden ages might be more attractive on large and huge maps, where I like to play.


- Sirian

[Soren Johnson]

Originally posted by Atahualpa
I am worried about this specialists feature. This sounds like a lot of micromanagement. If you've got 16 cities, digging into every single of them and adjusting the specialists sounds like a lot of work. This was the reason I never ever bothered with them in Civ3. In the end you forgot about them and soon you had horribly inefficient cities.

How is this handled? Is it really tedious micromanagement? Is there a mayor to assist you and is it cleverer?

You can also leave the governor on, but tell it to "force" certain specialists. So, there is a half-and-half solution. You can say to yourself "this is my science city" and then go in and "force" two scientists. The governor will then best try to juggle things assuming there has to be at lesat two scientists.

[Donegeal]

I have made my mark on the world of Civ!!!!

A Cottage gives you some commerce, but if a city works it, then the Cottage will later grow to be a Hamlet, which will later turn into a Village, which finally turns into a Town.

This is essentially my "build Suburb" suggestion from the list!!! I'm so happy I could cry!



Thanks Solver!!!!