Apolyton CIVILIZATION IV PREVIEW (by MarkG)

[Solver]

Ahh, but cities occupy one tile in Civ games as far as I know .

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Solver
As Markos said in his preview, units of civs not at war can occupy the same tile.

What??

Oh my god, I absolutely HATE this feature. It neutralizes like ten good features. I hope it can be modded out.

[Solver]

Like, what, exploiting your ability to direct AI movement?

Your land ir your land. If you don't have open borders, they can't enter your land. But why would they be unable to enter the same forest that your unit has entered?

[Harovan]

Because this is a game and not reality.

I would rather have it removed, and even more, have old style ZOC back. Like in CTP, for instance.

[Solver]

OK, what purpose does it serve for gameplay if units can't occupy the same tile? As far as I see it, it just creates exploits. You plonk down a warrior on some chokepoint and prevent any expansion unless you're declared war on. Or, you occupy the best city location near the AI with your unit to prevent them from settling. Bah!

[MarkG]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
1) you mention the "surrender" diplomacy option from SMAC. can you explain that to the few of us who never played SMAC?

in smac if you had an ai in quite difficult spot , instead of waiting your time taking one by one his cities, you could force him to surrender, basically having him make a permanent alliance with you. i think it also extended to UN voting, etc....

[yin26]

**pulls up a chair, orders a drink**

"What's all the rucus about over there, bartender?"

"That? Oh, Civ 4 is about to be released."

"Released? You mean from prison or something?"

"No, Civ 4 is a computer game..."

**sound of the rabid masses crashing beer bottles at Solver's feet, blaming him for how the number of fish are calculated in Civ 4 oceans**

"Wow, who's the guy getting beer bottles thrown at him?"

"Don't know. Looks and smells like a beta man, though?"

"Beta man? Ah, I switched to a DVD player years ago. Maybe I'll join in."

**Yin readies to throw is hastily emptied beer bottle at this guy who is still watching beta-max tapes**

"Hold on there, partner!"

**bartender grabs Yin's trowing arm just in time**

"Beta man means he's a beta tester. Had that look all about him. Notice the blood shot eyes and the down-trodden knowlege that for all his work he'll never be thanked and only reviled. Beta means he got a copy of Civ 4 long before these other chumps. Before that was an alpha."

"Christ, where's the Omega? We talking End of Days here?"

"No, man. No."

**a chair, meant for Solver, flies by Yin's head, narrowly missing him**

"So why would anybody become a beta man if all you get is violent outrage and what appears to be the scent of jealousy?"

"The chicks, bro. The chicks. If Solver can get out of here alive, he's got 6 hotties waiting for him in the back alley."

"So, it's safe to say, he's the Master Beta?"

"Not if those hotties get ahold of him!"

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Solver
OK, what purpose does it serve for gameplay if units can't occupy the same tile? As far as I see it, it just creates exploits. You plonk down a warrior on some chokepoint and prevent any expansion unless you're declared war on. Or, you occupy the best city location near the AI with your unit to prevent them from settling. Bah!

Who cares about the AI? Multiplayer is what counts.

No more "strategical securing of regions", or chokepoints for that matter. No more forcing a spotted invading force to declare war prematurely (with all consequences), because you block their road in unsettled territory. Yes, and no more denial of land and resources. You want that iron, or copper, or whatever? Only over my corpse.

Meh.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Solver
You plonk down a warrior on some chokepoint and prevent any expansion unless you're declared war on.

Oh and what concerns this, the AI was also pretty good at this, even in Civ3. You would know this, had you more cared about that game. So the "exploit" goes both ways, even if taking in account the AI.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Actually, Solver, this revelation about units sharing land does raise a whole HOST of new questions-questions relating to city occupation, the effects-if any-of forts, the presence or absence of Zone of Control-and things of that nature. I obviously don't expect you to answer all these questions right now (unless you REALLY want to, of course !) but I take it you will be covering all of these issues in your preview article?

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[Xurx]

Is there a way to occupy/claim land/expand borders without having to build a city ?

What i hate about almost all civ games, is that, for example you have an island, where your civ is on, on that island is a little part of land which is not suited to build a city on.
Then you have some foreign AI who brings in a settler and builds a city on that land.

It's my Island ffs !!

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Xurx
Is there a way to occupy/claim land/expand borders without having to build a city ?

What i hate about almost all civ games, is that, for example you have an island, where your civ is on, on that island is a little part of land which is not suited to build a city on.
Then you have some foreign AI who brings in a settler and builds a city on that land.

It's my Island ffs !!

yes, if you build your culture your borders will expand

[Harovan]

The only thing, what could console me a bit about this horrible feature would be, that you can help to defend the cities of your allies with your troops. If that would be the case (I hope it is!), I could be talked into grudgingly accept it.

Oh man, that ruined my day. Two more of such surprises, and Civ4 will look not better than Conquests.

[volcanohead]

LOL @ yin

I remember when civ3 was about to be released, and as I recall yin26 was initially very excited about the new version and put a lot of effort into it, until gradually as more info and finally the game itself came out the enthusiasm transformed into frustration and even anger.

Hope that this time will be different. Personally I have spent many happy hours with civ3, but I am no expert player nor perfectionist.

One very positive thing is that the whole development process has been a lot more mature this time around, and it seems that firaxis are not doing the cheapest option, but have genuinely striven to do the best quality job possible. And people like Soren seem to be well up to the job.

The only downside is if it is as good as it appears what the hell am I going to do about my wife and job?

Yours worriedly

V

[kolpo]

How are the civics balanced? What civic do you consider to be good?

Do all leaders care equally about your religion/civics or are some more religious or civic oriented?

I can't wait until civ comes out. I like what im hearing, allowing 2 units to occupy the same square allows units to help each other what is very fun and realistic. For I love helping other civs.