Apolyton CIVILIZATION IV PREVIEW (by MarkG)

[Martinus]

I have a question about closed vs. open borders, as well.

Does the closed borders mean you cannot trade (in resources) with the given civ, or just that you cannot start trade routes (for commerce gain) from your cities to that civ's cities.

I hope it's the latter, as the former would be rather crippling, making the closed borders option not really viable.

[tuckson]

Thanks for the quick answers (also to Markos )

Confirmed there is a spy unit. Terrorism options were, unfortunately, removed.

Hmmm That's too bad, however I did not use 'em much anyways in civ3 because of the terrible spy system and the ridiculous prices. But it would have been nice to see them back. But maybe some experienced modder hears a call of duty here?

You can have two options of borders with a given civ. Closed borders means they cannot move into your territory (and this means no - they cannot physically move into your territory with anything, unless they declare war) and open borders, which means they can move into your territory, but this also allows you to start trade routes with their cities.

That's cool. But does this also means that closing your borders breaks traderoutes? And are thses open/closed borders civ related or the same for all civs (I.O.W., do they more or less act like an inverted "passage agreement?)

edit: Hmmm, I type too slow. Martinus asked it 10 mins. ago

I think one of the fun things of this feature is that more emphasis can(will?) be laid on naval battles, since these routes will become more important to transport units to areas far away when a civ has closed it's borders while you need to pass it to reach the other side of the continent. By the way, do these closed borders also count for sea squares? That should be pretty nice since it would help prevent surprise attacks on ships (when war is declared by breaking through your border, I guess you would see a message form an advisor or something saying so)

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Ahhh, Martinus, you have hit on another reason why I wanted 3 levels of borders. Basically, your normal borders would allow normal trade-but at a cost of the knowledge that a civ could be sneaking invisible units across your borders (but not standard military/non-military units).
Closed borders would prevent ALL units crossing, but you lose all trade with that civ (and hurt your relations), wheras open borders allow ALL units to cross, but with the bonus of boosted trade with that civ. Now can people see why I preferred this option-I just felt it would add a lot more to the game.
That reminds me though-are spies and missionaries kept out by closed borders?

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[GeoModder]

Missionaries don't seem to be 'hidden' units, so they would be restricted by a close border agreement.

Spies OTOH... Buy I think it would almost be economic suicide for a civ to close its borders by the time spies can be trained.

[Spiffor]

Very nice Preview, thanks Mark

[korn469]

Mark a few more questions:

1. Did drafting and mobilization make it from civ3 into civ4?
2. Does civ4 have three different types of ocean terrain like civ3 or does it go back to a single type of ocean terrain like civ/civ2?

[Robert]

Originally posted by yin26
Rally points! Nice!

Another feature that's in civ3 as well.

[Atahualpa]

[Q=The_Aussie_Lurker]Ahhh, Martinus, you have hit on another reason why I wanted 3 levels of borders. Basically, your normal borders would allow normal trade-but at a cost of the knowledge that a civ could be sneaking invisible units across your borders (but not standard military/non-military units).
Closed borders would prevent ALL units crossing, but you lose all trade with that civ (and hurt your relations), wheras open borders allow ALL units to cross, but with the bonus of boosted trade with that civ. Now can people see why I preferred this option-I just felt it would add a lot more to the game.
That reminds me though-are spies and missionaries kept out by closed borders?[/Q]

I'd go with 4 options:
Closed: No military forces, no non-military forces, 25% chance of success for invisible unit to cross border
Surveyed: no military forces, but non-military forces (workers, explorers, ...) are allowed, 50% chance for invisible units to cross border
Limited: a maximum number of x strength (of units) from this civ may be in your territory at the same time, so the AI can move limited number of units through your territory, non-military forces are allowed since they got no strength (I assume) and invisible units have a 75% chance to cross the border
Open: no limits whatsoever, this civ can come and go as they please

[MarkG]

Originally posted by korn469
Mark a few more questions:

1. Did drafting and mobilization make it from civ3 into civ4?

drafting is in, with pop or gold expense based on your civics choices

i'm not sure what you mean by mobilization, i havent played civ3 for over 2 years now(i was playing with real life greek artillery instead )

2. Does civ4 have three different types of ocean terrain like civ3 or does it go back to a single type of ocean terrain like civ/civ2?

i'll have to check. the waves are nice though

[Stuie]

Originally posted by MarkG
i'm not sure what you mean by mobilization, i havent played civ3 for over 2 years now(i was playing with real life greek artillery instead )

Mobilizing your economy for wartime in Civ3 provided a bonus to shields for building military units while at the same time restricting what was available to build (you couldn't build anything with a non-military purpose).

[kolpo]

Does the world map have fixed starting locations, so that the Greeks shall start in Greece and not in South America.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Stuie
Mobilizing your economy for wartime in Civ3 provided a bonus to shields for building military units while at the same time restricting what was available to build (you couldn't build anything with a non-military purpose).

no such thing, except that you have civic choices that are better for warfare and you can optimize your city production for more shields

[Imran Siddiqui]

Nice preview, Markos

[LordShiva]

Markos: Can you tell if the names of the Indian cities have been fixed? Did Firaxis see me old thread? Or do we still have the likes of "Punjab" and "Bengal" and "Indus"?

[James]

Looking forward to Civ IV more so now.