Based On What We Know: Rate Civ 4

[ajbera]

You just called him Assie_Lurker.

[Willem]

Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker
Well, he mentions both XML (which is, I imagine, similar to the Civ3:Conquests Editor) and Python (which is the ability to effectively 'rewrite' many of the rules-as well as incorporate 'scripted events'. Add to this the SDK coming out at years end, which will allow us to add entirely new rules and concepts, and alter the AI as much as we want. So, I think we can safely assume that we will getting MUCH more than a map editor this time around!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

I know that the modding ability will be greatly enhanced in Civ 4, but the impression I'm getting is that alot will have to be done through text files, the same sort of way that Civ 2/SMAC were modded. But I liked the GUI that the Civ 3 editor used, I found it much easier than having to search through lines of text looking for the entry that changed what I wanted.

And no, I don't believe that XML will be GUI based like Civ 3. This is where I get the impression it is a text based editing environment. I've read on a number of occasions that XML files can be edited using Notepad/Wordpad or similar. It looks to me that the map editor is just that, and any real changes to the rules won't be possible using it.

[Boris Godunov]

The Civ3 editor sucked for doing anything beyond just changing numerical values. Want to add a new unit? Well, now you have to edit two text files, copy the graphics into a new folder, do 37 cartwheels... It was a mess.

And drawing a map shouldn't be so time-consuming. You had to place all the tiles there manually. How about a "fill" option? You know, just draw the borders of a land mass and then have it fill in with a selected terrain?

Granted, I don't know if Civ4's map editor will be better in that regard, but I can hope.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
No, it doesn't break the game, as far as it is known. Since lots of people have been playing it so far and this hasn't "broken" the game, I don't see how you can be in a position to assert this, since you haven't played it.

What it's done has scrapped one of your favorite strategies. Well, boohoo, a lot of the new features are doing that for me and everyone else. That's part of it being a new game, not just an upgrade. You'll adapt and learn to play differently.

So back off the pessimism and wait until you've played the game, at least, to whine and gnash teeth over a feature. I just don't understand getting so upset over something that isn't even a core aspect of Civ gameplay.

I grant you the right to have your opinion. Would you be so kind to grant me the right to have my own?

[Willem]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


I grant you the right to have your opinion. Would you be so kind to grant me the right to have my own?

By the sounds of it, it's not going to be any different than what we had in SMAC. It didn't break that game, so I don't think it will break Civ 4. Of course only playing a few games will tell us for certain. And if it is an issue, I'm sure the clamour of the fans will get it fixed in the first patch. So I wouldn't sweat it to much Ralph, there's no need to get your girdle in a knot just yet. Play a few games first.

[Harovan]

Et tu, Brute?

What I don't get is, why people are so interested in my opinion and eagerly try to change it. Does anyone see me attack any of the scores of players, who stated, that they like that feature? That is perfectly fine with me, they are entitled to believe what they want and I am willing and able to agree to disagree. Why can't you do the same?

[sabrewolf]

good question, ralph, and interesting psychological situation.

what i don't really understand is the lack of tolerance of your opinion...
maybe when nearly everybody is hailing something/someone, one is best off joining in (peer pressure). and the few who are not willing to follow the flow are seen as traitors.
one can see this situation historically with nationalism in the 30s (but also today in some countries), theocracies, etc. hell, even cubans seem to love their nation and leader, but they are dead scared to say something...

in this situation here in my personal opinion the shared-tile feature is neither a game breaker, nor is it a super-addition (i liked civ2 ZOC)... in real life the military can also block off areas from the general public, even with open borders.

[Harovan]

Yep, Civ2/CTP style ZOC would have been nice.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

I think the reason people are soooo interested in your opinion, Sir Ralph, is because you are-for some reason-seen as a barometer. I guess it is because you seem like such a rational person, so that when you get disappointed with the game, I get a little worried. Don't ask me why, but I do !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[sabrewolf]

after all, there's a city placement strategy named after him

(ralphing)

[Harovan]

Oh come on, that ralphing thing is a joke at best.

And if that consoles you a bit, I am not disappointed about the whole game over this feature, but only about the feature itself. Of course my overall judgement about Civ4 is down by a few percents now, but it is still an exceptional good game.

As for the feature, well, it's a bit of hatelove in me. I love the ability to actually help an ally. I hate it, because it is a sacrilege. And I regret, that games of blocking and funneling in MP are gone. I remember a PBEM I played with Nathan, FP and OPD. Nathans galley was exploring my coasts, which I didn't like, because I didn't want him to discover a crossing I had found to attack OPD with a gigantic landing (I was suspecting him to be allied with OPD). I caged in his galley with five of mine - not too efficient, but fun. Bummer that such things are gone, because that blocking was certainly not worth a declaration of war. The game has become a bit poorer, but not much.

[Solver]

I'm actually interested in seeing your judgement after you play the game - Civ4 adds so much choice, instead of the Civ3 no-brainers, that the game seems much richer to me.

[Harovan]

This is true without any doubt, but it could be even richer without this feature.

[Nikolai]

How can you know? Honestly, who of you two have played the game?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
I grant you the right to have your opinion. Would you be so kind to grant me the right to have my own?

Where did I say you can't have your opinion?

You're free to express it, and I'm free to disagree with it. That's what has been done.

I see you getting upset when I think you really don't need to be yet--especially since you haven't even played the game! So I'm just suggesting you relax and not let it upset you until you see how it plays out. You might end up totally loving the new way and then you'll feel darn silly for all the gnashing of teeth beforehand.

I just want you to feel better, Ralphie.