Does Mali Deserve To Be In Civ IV?

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by AeonOfTime


I spent some time a while ago reading up on the Vikings and Celts (really like their culture), and was surprised myself at the far reaches of their influence. If they had been only robber pirates and rapists, how would that image have survived for so long...

Personally I think part of it is to do with the Catholic Church, and a desireon the part of European nation states to emulate the Greeks and Romans.

Hence, democracy is said to derive in some unbroken chain from Ancient Greece, with in America and Great Britain a token mention of the Anglo-Saxons.

Scandinavians and the Irish know better.

http://www.unc.edu/celtic/imagesindex.html

Type of object: Mounts and Fittings

Material: gold

Period: Insular Bronze Age

Find spot: Tedavnet, Co. Monghan

Country: Ireland

Date: 2000-1800

Collection: Dublin, National Museum of Ireland

[Imran Siddiqui]

how Vikings who became Normans conquered England and Sicily and southern Italy

Normans . The most advanced kingdom in all Europe in 500 years after the "fall" of Rome (whenever that may be) was the empire run by the Robert Guiscard in Sicily. The combination of Roman, Greek, and Arab learning made it a beacon of knowledge and tolerance unseen for a quite a while after it fell. Oh, and just about everyone has heard about William the Conquerer and his Normans changing the course of British history forever (especially the laws that came with him).

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
[ Oh, and just about everyone has heard about William the Conquerer and his Normans changing the course of British history forever (especially the laws that came with him).

Give thanks to Angevin Henry II, Duke of Normandy, King of England, for the jury system we enjoy.


Still have a soft spot for the film 'Lion in Winter' with excellent performances from Peter O'Toole and Katharine Hepburn as Henry and Eleanor.


Spot on about the Sicilian Normans too- Roger II had a book compiled by his court academicians called, unsurprisingly, 'The Book of Roger' which states fairly unequivocally in the 12th Century that the earth is spherical.

During this research, al-Idrisi and Roger compared data, keeping the facts on which travelers agreed and throwing out all conflicting information. This process of collecting and assessing material took 15 years, during which, according to al-Idrisi, hardly a day passed when the king did not confer personally with the geographers, studying accounts that disagreed, examining astronomical coordinates, tables and itineraries, poring over books and weighing divergent opinions.


Finally, however, the long preliminary study was finished and the task of map making began. First, under al-Idrisi's direction, a working copy was produced on a drawing board, with places sited on the map with compasses, following the tables that had already been prepared. Then a great disk almost 80 inches in diameter and weighing over 300 pounds was fabricated out of silver, chosen for its malleability and permanence.


Al-Idrisi explained that the disk merely symbolized the shape of the world: "The earth is round like a sphere, and the waters adhere to it and are maintained on it through natural equilibrium which suffers no variation." It remained "stable in space like the yolk in an egg. Air surrounds it on all sides.... All creatures are stable on the surface of the earth, the air attracting what is light, the earth what is heavy, as the magnet attracts iron." As his comment suggests, al-Idrisi thought that the world was round.

http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/197704/al-idrisi.and.roger.s.book.htm

Roger's crowning moment-

On me 'ead, son:

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by molly bloom
Still have a soft spot for the film 'Lion in Winter' with excellent performances from Peter O'Toole and Katharine Hepburn as Henry and Eleanor.

"What family doesn't have its ups and downs?"

"Of course he has a knife, he always has a knife, we all have knives! It's 1183 and we're barbarians!"

"Henry? I have a confession. I don't much like our children."

Prince John: "Poor John. Who says poor John? Don't everybody sob at once! My God, if I went up in flames there's not a living soul who'd pee on me to put the fire out!"

Prince Richard: "Let's strike a flint and see."

I love that movie.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

how Vikings who became Normans conquered England and Sicily and southern Italy

Normans . The most advanced kingdom in all Europe in 500 years after the "fall" of Rome (whenever that may be) was the empire run by the Robert Guiscard in Sicily. The combination of Roman, Greek, and Arab learning made it a beacon of knowledge and tolerance unseen for a quite a while after it fell. Oh, and just about everyone has heard about William the Conquerer and his Normans changing the course of British history forever (especially the laws that came with him).

If not those pesky Normans, Alexios Komnenos could fight the Turks, instead of liberating Amaseia, repealing their invasions in Epiros/Albania and dealing with duchy of Antioch.

Btw, Mali sux.

[Gangerolf]

mali is ok

[Nikolai]

Gangerolf! That was a long time, no see!

[Heresson]

Mali malus est
(or perhaps Mali mali sunt?)

[AeonOfTime]

@Heresson: Btw, Mali sux.

Ye mighty king of frogs, surely thou art mocking us! Ye argument cannot stand up in our mighty courts. Proof ye must bring to us lest we burn ye at the stake.

[Heresson]

99,99% people of the world do not even know what or where is Mali.
The only non-Mediterrean African state that fully deserves to be in the game is undoubtly Aethiopia. The rest of Africa should be kept free from civs to become place of foreign expansion - it will make the game more interesting

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Heresson
99,99% people of the world do not even know what or where is Mali.
The only non-Mediterrean African state that fully deserves to be in the game is undoubtly Aethiopia. The rest of Africa should be kept free from civs to become place of foreign expansion - it will make the game more interesting

Tommyrot and taradiddle.

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Heresson
99,99% people of the world do not even know what or where is Mali.

Are you sure that less then 600000 people know where Mali is? Because in that case even it's population doesn't have a clue where they're living!

[Nikolai]

Ignorance is widespread. And so is analphabetism.

[GeoModder]

So, not even one in every 25 inhabitants would know it's country by name then?

Granted that there's a possibility that more people outside the country know the location then inside, but still, less then 600000?

[Nikolai]

Of course they know. It's just that they don't tell us Western intruders. How big is Mali these days btw? I didn't think they were that big? 600.000x25 = 15 millions. Then they're bigger than I though.