Simple "Supply" System

[Provost Harrison]

Sounds 'unfun'...I don't think this would be a good idea...

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Come on, Provost, you can do better than that. If it sounds 'unfun' to you, tell us WHY??
As for this model supporting REXing, well this is already a huge problem in Civ WITHOUT Operational Range and supply points and, quite frankly, I think it will be more likely to force things more AWAY from REXing, as exploration is going to be needed prior to settlement of new lands (which slows down expansion rates).
The best thing to do, though, is to implement other, better ways of reducing REXing as a useful strategy whilst-at the same time- introducing Operational Range and Supply Points as a way of improving the Tactical and Strategic elements of the game.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Sounds 'unfun'...I don't think this would be a good idea...

That's the other reason I think it won't be included.

Come on, Provost, you can do better than that. If it sounds 'unfun' to you, tell us WHY??

I want to click on my Warrior and hit 9 and have him move northeast. I don't want to check if I have supply, set up supply routes, move a supply wagon, whatever, all in order to be able to hit 9 and move him northeast without him suddenly losing hitpoints.

[alms66]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
I want to click on my Warrior and hit 9 and have him move northeast. I don't want to check if I have supply, set up supply routes, move a supply wagon, whatever, all in order to be able to hit 9 and move him northeast without him suddenly losing hitpoints.

You do this sort of thing with galleys all the time. You move out to sea, move again, pull back to coast to avoid loosing the galley. All that is needed is a good visual indication that your warrior is out of supply, and you'd effectively be doing the same thing on land. If he's losing hitpoints, that's a fairly good indication IMO, though if the disbanding system were used in place of a hitpoint-loss system, a simple change from a white active unit icon to a red active unit icon would do the trick.

Supply wagons add an addition element of MM that some players wouldn't find fun at all, I'll admit, so I wouldn't include them in the standard game, I'd just do my original writeup. As an option for those who want additional detail and realism, and are willing to put up with the extra MM, supply wagons would offer that greater range and flexibility.

[Trifna]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


That's the other reason I think it won't be included.

Come on, Provost, you can do better than that. If it sounds 'unfun' to you, tell us WHY??

I want to click on my Warrior and hit 9 and have him move northeast. I don't want to check if I have supply, set up supply routes, move a supply wagon, whatever, all in order to be able to hit 9 and move him northeast without him suddenly losing hitpoints.

I don't think that there's any need for that if we have a single "support unit" with an automatic trail of "couriers" behind it. You just move the support unit (and hope that it wont lose all its couriers, thus die).

[Provost Harrison]

Kuci is right, seems like unnecessary, and unfun, complexity. Ships are a little bit different - you can quite clearly see the sea or ocean squares...but I think this is a no go...

[Mace]

While the idea of "supply" is neat, I tend to agree that supply would be an overcomplication for Civ4. I fear Civ4 may STRANGELY be a bit simplistic in some areas (combat), and a bit complicated in others (religion). Granted I am unable to fully form my opinion on the subject since I can't play Civ4. "Supply" is not an idea that I would casually dismiss, by any means...

I do like "possibility 1" in Trifna's post, above--simple, yet adequate modelling of supply. My thinking now is that supply would be "unfun" (to borrow the catchphrase) and too much stuff for an epic Civ game. Perhaps for a military game, it would be appropriate and not an overcomplicaiton.

If Civ4 is indeed very moddable, I am sure someone will mod in supply, and it wouldn't be a bad mod in certain circumstances, either.

[alms66]

Trifna's possibility 1 is essentially what I suggested, except that the range emminates from the border, rather than the city in my version. Fortresses, colonies and even roads outside of the border could also extend the range at reduced effect (say 1/2 OR)?

[Solver]

Supply is indeed a good concept, and yes Civ4 is simpler without it, but supply can be handled in a very unfun way. And it can also be handled nicely.

For instance, in Ages of Man, you need Public Works for supply. Your units use up supply points when they're healing. Therefore, if you go to war with good supply, your units will heal and be effective. If your supply is bad, your units will be far less effective because they don't heal, and so you'll probably lose the war.

So, the easiest way to implement supply in Civ4 would also be healing. Say, units don't heal at all outside cities, unless they have a supply unit near them.

[Grandpa Troll]

I really enjoyed the supply system of the Play Station CIV 2 version (not sure if CIV2 PC had it or not??) where your caravan could help rush buy a wonder or add something to a city


I thought it was realistic if a big city had excess and sent it to a fledgling community to help

Thats how I would like to see supply handled in CIVIV even if it was a penalty that maybe you only got 75% of what you shipped due to shrinkage (loss due to theft,spoilage or whatever)

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by alms66
You do this sort of thing with galleys all the time. You move out to sea, move again, pull back to coast to avoid loosing the galley. All that is needed is a good visual indication that your warrior is out of supply, and you'd effectively be doing the same thing on land.

The difference is, in that case, I have to do a bunch of extra stuff to extend his range (like move a supply wagon). With ships, I can't do anything about it, so no extra unfun work.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Mace
While the idea of "supply" is neat, I tend to agree that supply would be an overcomplication for Civ4. I fear Civ4 may STRANGELY be a bit simplistic in some areas (combat), and a bit complicated in others (religion).

Complex combat is bad. Complex combat leads to uninsteresting strategies, because it is much harder to weed out dominating strategies from complex combat systems than from simple ones. There's a reason chess is the most popular strategy game ever made. And the religion system looks very simple - in a good way.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Solver
So, the easiest way to implement supply in Civ4 would also be healing. Say, units don't heal at all outside cities, unless they have a supply unit near them.

How is that fun? So now you just send a supply unit with your stacks. Whoop-de-do.

[alms66]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


The difference is, in that case, I have to do a bunch of extra stuff to extend his range (like move a supply wagon). With ships, I can't do anything about it, so no extra unfun work.

The supply wagon part is totally optional, the system would work without it.

[Xorbon]

Slowing-down exploration

If you want to slow down exploration because you think it's currently too fast, I've got an idea that doesn't involve supply. How about, when a unit moves through unexplored territory only the tile it moves into becomes revealed. In order to expose the surrounding adjacent tiles, you have to force the unit to rest for one complete turn.

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