Why do Navies suck so badly in Civ?

[Kuciwalker]

This is also implemented in C3C

[Agathon]

Originally posted by skywalker
This is also implemented in C3C

The aircraft or ZOCS?

[ThePlagueRat]

For aircrafts, the lethal land and sea bombardment flag is on in C3C.

In the old days it was just 'bombardissimo' so they were only good for infrastructure bombing to stop those pesky cavalry from charging in great numbers. Now air units can kill, and we like killing don't we?!

[Agathon]

I didn't know as I don't have C3C. I'm an EU2 man these days.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Agathon
I didn't know as I don't have C3C. I'm an EU2 man these days.

Naval and air powers have been beefed up considerably in C3C to the point of actually being quite fun. And the AI uses a lot of privateers, which will eat up your galleys if not careful. And those privateers can enslave to form more privateers. On one map as the english (seafaring trait =+1 sea move) I had about 42 men o war and about 30 enslaved at the end (enslaved are regs so I used mainly bombardment, with the vets attacking). A blast. The ai is better at sea, not perfect of course.

[ThePlagueRat]

Also, as I mentioned, C3C has this nice Age of Discovery campaign where naval units is a must, and privateers can even rob treasures!


Well, naval power in C3C is not as well made as it is in EU2.
Between those two, EU2 rule the seas IMHO.

[Agathon]

What do you think about my ideas on how the game should be designed around historical strategy?

[lajzar]

Ironclads: a historical blip, but no reason that history should be repeated. Keep the ironclad.

dreadnoughts: The historical ship named dreadnought was a European ironclad. No particular need for a separate class here.

Monitors: US ironclads differed from European models in that they were far less sea worthy (European ironclads were ocean going, fuel permitting). Perhaps make a separate class. Maybe force the player to choose ironclads or monitors with boolean tech requirements.

It might be interesting to give steam ships a fuel limit, somewhat similar to civ2 air units.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by lajzar


dreadnoughts: The historical ship named dreadnought was a European ironclad. No particular need for a separate class here..

Ummm.... no. HMS Dreadnought was the first modern battleship. By that I mean an all big gun (12 inch) ship with heavy armour and turbines rather than reciprocating engines.

[lajzar]

There was another HMS dreadnought before that one. Ship names do get re-used. Check out how many military vessels there are named "Dolphin" sometime.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by lajzar
There was another HMS dreadnought before that one. Ship names do get re-used. Check out how many military vessels there are named "Dolphin" sometime.

That's true, but when people refer to "Dreadnoughts" they mean turbine powered, heavy armoured, all big gun, ships. That's what was being talked about in this thread.

Ironclads are a bit of a waste of time, unless they are supposed to include all pre-dreadnought battleships, most of which were not monitors (the current civ 3 ironclad).

I've said that my objections to ironclads concern the ridiculously short time that sailing ships are worth anything in Civ 3. That definitely needs to be fixed.

[ThePlagueRat]

A historical naval battle system would be fine. But how do one implement that?

- One way of doing it could be by having more unit stats than att/def, and a different HP system. 0 - 100 damage rating. at about 75: incapable of fighting or support it's stack. 100 means sunk. Something that way...

[Agathon]

I just mean that thinking about the way navies work should reflect real naval strategies, rather than just a pretty graphic with some movement points.

[lajzar]

ok, I've been persuaded of teh virtues of having a separate dreadnought class. Id write more, but a bycicle accident has pit my right thiumb out of action.

[AroSch]

Originally posted by Agathon
I've said that my objections to ironclads concern the ridiculously short time that sailing ships are worth anything in Civ 3. That definitely needs to be fixed.

I agree. That's an important point. The Age of Sail is not very well reflected in any Civgame. Ok, it has still to be discussed when a "Civish Age of Sail" should start. But IMHO it has to be much longer than now. And it has to be different.