[MOD] Age Of Discovery 1492-1792

[Fireb]

I've just had a quick play around with it. Few things to add:

Dawn of man - much better now - except for the typo: 'my god be with you' -> 'may god'.

Bombard - still better than the cannon?

Cardiff is still? starving.

Different city sizes look much more realistic

Colonisation appears to happen much faster/better than before.

[koningtiger]

A few turns played, tech descriptions are now ok.

Some points.

Oviedo and Sevilla are starving, Bilbao too, but can change if you put yourself were to work.

About the "all civs balanced" issue, i think it would be better a more historic point of view. I mean, this is a historical scenario, why dont let the civs that were in advantage in that times be the same in the scenario?

Perhpas would be more accurate change Castellón by Valencia, a bigger city.

Good work in all i have seen.

[Bill3000]

Suggestion: Move the techs for Free Religion/Free Market/Free Speech/Representation and the like upwards. It's kind of odd to have everyone change their governments to secular democracies ones on turn one.

[Dale]

Only problem is, what to do with Genoa, which was a Representative/Free speech govt!

[Fireb]

Ancient Athens was a representative/free speech govt (albeit with the occasional chance of being executed if the demos didn't like what you were saying to them).

It may not be necessary, or even desirable, for all civs to start out with the same techs, and at the same point in the tech tree. It may even make some sense to allow some techs for some nations earlier, and to disable a few techs for a few nations. You could have some un-tradeable linking techs as well.

With regards to civics, you can always add more civics, which are applicable to only a few nations (e.g. genoa). Disable the techs they require, give that tech as a starting tech to Genoa, disable trading in that tech, and have a later (researchable) civic which provides exactly the same effects.

I would also agree, that it would be better if all civs were not balanced. All (major) civs should certainly be playable, but that doesn't mean they should necessarily be playable in the same way, or that 'victory' for each one should be measured in the same quantifiers.

[Dale]

The only concern I have with balance is this:

- Spain/France have the most cities
- England/Portugal have a decent starting territory
- Holland starts with one city

More cities means more production, more units supportable, more gold from towns, more science. There is an inbuilt imbalance purely from the scope of city numbers.

Also remember too that Europe pretty much flat-lined in terms of stability, growth, tech advancement during the middle ages until the early 15th century. Spain had just formed from Castille/Aragorn after the reconquista, and France had only just got rid of England in the 1440's. At the start of the scenario, the reconquista has just ended, France had solidified its borders with Province & Brittany joining the Kingdom as provinces, England had just had the War of the Roses, and Holland had formed from the rebellions after the collapse of Burgundy and the poor rule of the Hapsburgs. Historically it WAS fairly even in all respects but land/cities.

Dale

[Rhianni]

Beta2 played much better last night. I'm having a good deal of fun. Here are a few things I noticed...

1: Computer colonizes smartly now and a lot sooner. Holland and France were placing colonies next to each other. Before IF they colonized it was random and spread out. Too easy to beat them when I had 4 of my colonies next to each other. Holland in canada and France in florida in mass gave it a nice feel. Spain and Portugal were spotted across the islands. Even Saxony had 1 colony which is pretty realstic. If they would it would have been rare.

2: YAY for resources getting back to europe. Its nice to see towns getting above size 6 and not starving.

3: Is there a way to remove buildable unit types from a country? If so I think it would be neat to have The Cherokee and Iroquis as nations but without the ability to build settlers and keep them low tech would be fun. Add a little competition to the westward expansion. This would give it a better feeling. When I colonized Virginia to Maine I had 2 barbarian warriors and I didnt see any cities. Maybe a fluke and there should have been a town or two by then.

4: You are right about the problem with Spain and France. If they go to war with anyone they win because of cities. I think to balance it out you will need to add in some triggered events. France would have Hugonaut revolts. Could have some barbarian units load in on turn X. Britain should have a tech advantage in navy. Frigates at 8 would be too much vs the Caravel 3. Maybe add in an intermidiate ship at 5 or 6?

5: Religion. I've noticed a few problems with this in every game I play. Because they are along the same linear tech pathway 1 country usually gets them all. In regular Civ because they are a bit more spread out they tend to get more evenly founded across multiple civs. Also when they are founded the computer rarely switches. There isnt much insentive to become your own religion when 6 other civs are another.
As has been posted by another, giving aztecs and the mayans their own religion would help start wars with europe.

6: Lockup crashing error. Twice last night I started up a game. Tested and played with it. Then quit to the main menu and started again. It locked up after I selected my civ and it was on the 'Finishing' screen of creating the game just before it started. Locked up bad enough I had to reboot. Did that twice. Anyone else get this?

[Dale]

Rhianni:

On your lockups while loading, did you open anything else on your computer while waiting for it to load? I've noticed on any huge map in Civ4 if you take the focus away from the game to another app on your computer it will lockup at Finishing (sometimes Setup Map too).

Dale

[Bill3000]

You could also give some bonuses to having a Holy City as well, more than just culture. Currently as it is Catholicism just doesn't have any holy city - that just means a lack of +4 extra culture in a city. If there was more incentive to both 1) found the new religion, 2) spread the religion, 3) make it one's state religion in a way that counterbalances the diplomacy penalty from switching. At the very least, you could greatly increase the spread factor of the later religions.

[Rhianni]

Wonder if the religions can be founded on their own randomly and take it out of the tech tree. With the exclusion of Henry in England founding anglicanism the other branches of religion were started by common people. I think it could be fun to have a religion founded in your state and have to deal with it spreading on its own.

[HawaiiFive-O]

Am playing this scenario and having a blast doing so. Thanks.

Any thought to adding in the Azores (Portugal) and the Canary Islands (Spain)?

[HawaiiFive-O]

More feedback:

Cannons are later in the tech tree than Bombards, but are worse?

No Fish/Clams/Crab resources, intentional or oversight?

[mhistbuff]

I agree with Rhianni that the religions need to be founded more organically.

Maybe the discovery of the technology causes the foundation of the religion in a random Catholic city. Perhaps the technologies shouldn't even be "religious". Historically, the printing press was one of the major influences on the development of Protestantism - tying religion to an otherwise useful technology would cause the creation of religions even when the creation of new religions isn't a player goal. Indeed, in many ways, the reformation religions were political nightmares for countries affected, at least at first.

Protestantism should then spread quickly without player intervention. Perhaps the probability of spread should be governed by the amount of commerce generated in a given city (more than simply the number of trade routes), which would reflect the prevelence of Protestant religions among the mercantile classes.

[Noose]

Overall very good,

However I found that the barbarians went straight from warriors to men at arms. Spearmen, axemen and swordsmen would be more accurate as men at arms implies they had established metal working knowledge not just basic knowledge.

[Dale]

Beta3 is on the way soon!

Lots of updates, and lots of stuff finalised. Stay tuned.

In the meantime, here's the full parade of nations......

*from left --> right, top --> bottom*

England, France, Spain, Muslim, Holland, Maya, Saxony, Genoa, Portugal, Aztec, Scotland, Natives.