NFL Football - 2012 Season Thread

H Tower · March 22, 2012, 13:08

That's funny, because I distinctly remember watching Shockey as a Giant swerve across the field so he could deliver a hit to a cornerback on the way to the endzone.

-Jrabbit · March 22, 2012, 15:10

Mr. Forte is frustrated:

"There's only so many times a man that has done everything he's been asked to do can be disrespected!" Forte wrote on his Twitter account. "Guess the good guys do finish last."

Source: Matt Forte on Twitter
Mar 22 - 2:50 PM

demonbinder · March 22, 2012, 15:14

I liked the move with Bush. They still have lots of cap space and can negotiate with Forte (who unfortunately still doesn't understand football is a business esp. when it comes to the RB position) and are protected in case he sits out. So far, I like the moves by the Emery. I would like to see another WR and some defensive moves but there is lots of time left and the draft still to come.

rah · March 22, 2012, 15:17

I really have a problem that someone that has had continued negotiations and has been tagged as a Franchise player which guarantees that he be paid like the top players at that position can feel disrespected. If they were offering him way below market value I might understand, but some of the dollars I've heard tossed around were not that bad. And if by signing someone else to make them stronger at that position for considerably less than they offered you makes you feel disrespected then you can just deal with it. I really like him but he's starting to sound like a petulant child.

MRT144 · March 22, 2012, 16:18

Originally Posted by rah

I really have a problem that someone that has had continued negotiations and has been tagged as a Franchise player which guarantees that he be paid like the top players at that position can feel disrespected. If they were offering him way below market value I might understand, but some of the dollars I've heard tossed around were not that bad. And if by signing someone else to make them stronger at that position for considerably less than they offered you makes you feel disrespected then you can just deal with it. I really like him but he's starting to sound like a petulant child.

You Bears fans are so miserly when it comes to offensive players. Matt Forte is arguably a top 5 back in the league and you're not treating him as such. The franchise tag is a tool to prevent price discovery for players. When is the last time your team's front office held on to a RB for more than 4 years? Neal Anderson? Given the track record of the Bears front office with the past 3 RBs, it isn't absurd to view Bush's signing as a legitimate threat.

And the worst thing is, you Bears fans are so wrapped up in the Ditka complex that you don't want talented if somewhat egotistical or emotional players on your team.

SlowwHand · March 22, 2012, 16:35

Ditka

Al B. Sure! · March 22, 2012, 16:52

Originally Posted by H Tower

That's funny, because I distinctly remember watching Shockey as a Giant swerve across the field so he could deliver a hit to a cornerback on the way to the endzone.

Yes sir! I remember that too. Shockey was the ****

SlowwHand · March 22, 2012, 16:55

crap? Yeah.

Al B. Sure! · March 22, 2012, 16:55

Originally Posted by MRT144

You Bears fans are so miserly when it comes to offensive players. Matt Forte is arguably a top 5 back in the league and you're not treating him as such. The franchise tag is a tool to prevent price discovery for players. When is the last time your team's front office held on to a RB for more than 4 years? Neal Anderson? Given the track record of the Bears front office with the past 3 RBs, it isn't absurd to view Bush's signing as a legitimate threat.

And the worst thing is, you Bears fans are so wrapped up in the Ditka complex that you don't want talented if somewhat egotistical or emotional players on your team.

I realized this a few years back with the way they discarded Thomas Jones.

The Bears have Brandon Marshall now to go with Johnny Knox... they have Michael Bush who really is a starting caliber RB with great hands for a power back and a fantastic complement to Matt Forte. This squad is looking pretty nice.

H Tower · March 22, 2012, 16:57

Forte is mad the Bears signed another runningback? The NFL is a two back system, that's the way it works. Teams want 2 good to great runningbacks on their teams.

MRT144 · March 22, 2012, 16:58

Originally Posted by H Tower

Forte is mad the Bears signed another runningback? The NFL is a two back system, that's the way it works. Teams want 2 good to great runningbacks on their teams.

Taken in context of the Bears organization, it's more of a deleveraging of Forte's value. It's not a master stroke of on field strategy.

Al B. Sure! · March 22, 2012, 17:01

Similarly, Drew Stanton is feeling wronged by the Jets signing Tebow. He's saying he wants to be released if he's not the No. 2. So much entitlement, but from Drew Stanton, it's kind of funny.

Donegeal · March 22, 2012, 17:06

Originally Posted by MRT144

You Bears fans are so miserly when it comes to offensive players. Matt Forte is arguably a top 5 back in the league and you're not treating him as such.

You are correct. Matt Forte is easily one of the top 5 RBs in the NFL. And the Bears offered to pay him like a top 5 RB. That is what a Franchise tag is. It is the average of the top 5 paid players at whatever position he plays.

The Bears signing Bush means that they are still going to have a high quality RB if Forte Hold out. Forte no longer has any leverage to holding out. He will probably sign the Franchise Tag with an addendum that the Bears not Franchise him next season.

MRT144 · March 22, 2012, 17:07

Originally Posted by Donegeal

You are correct. Matt Forte is easily one of the top 5 RBs in the NFL. And the Bears offered to pay him like a top 5 RB. That is what a Franchise tag is. It is the average of the top 5 paid players at whatever position he plays.

The Bears signing Bush means that they are still going to have a high quality RB if Forte Hold out. Forte no longer has any leverage to holding out. He will probably sign the Franchise Tag with an addendum that the Bears not Franchise him next season.

The Franchise tag isn't some great benefit to players. I don't know why people keep thinking it is. It limits the ability of the player to get price discovery on long term contracts.

Donegeal · March 22, 2012, 17:30

I know what it does. It pays them the average of the top 5 players at his position. You just said he was a top 5 RB. Now the Bears offered to pay him like one. Does it prevent him from getting top dollar on a completely open FA market? Yes. But he is still gunna get paid like a top 5 RB.

-Jrabbit · March 22, 2012, 17:47

There's a BIG difference between a one-year franchise and the upfront guarantees a player like Forte would get with a long-term deal. $7million under franchise tag is a nice haul, but considering that Forte's rookie deal was a 2nd-round thing that he thoroughly out-performed (playing for $550K last year), I think he is within his rights to squawk a bit. The guy played hard, he has played hurt, and he did not let negotiations become a distraction. And let's not forget that the Bears have publicly stated that a long-term deal for Forte is a priority for them -- under both Angelo and Emery.

If they can't get something done, the Bears' treatment of Forte is going to have a significant impact on their ability to attract free agents in the future. I'd much rather see some money go to a player like Forte than to a diva WR.

Lord Avalon · March 23, 2012, 01:19

Originally Posted by Al B. Sure!

Similarly, Drew Stanton is feeling wronged by the Jets signing Tebow. He's saying he wants to be released if he's not the No. 2. So much entitlement, but from Drew Stanton, it's kind of funny.

"Kind of funny"?? I think it's ****ing hilarious!

SlowwHand · March 23, 2012, 01:47

All the #1's changing teams and a #2, of any kind, is feeling wronged? And what is the minimum pay for a guy who may not even get a jersey dirty all year?

Lord Avalon · March 23, 2012, 02:02

According to ESPN he had signed a 1yr $1.25M contract just last Friday.

SlowwHand · March 23, 2012, 02:07

That should keep him off welfare.

Lorizael · March 23, 2012, 08:43

Originally Posted by Supr49er

Warren Sapp accuses Jeremy Shockey of being the Bounty Snitch.

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...1#.T2tYnNUVN8E

Does that make Warren Sapp the Bounty Snitch Snitch?

rah · March 23, 2012, 10:07

If they can't get something done, the Bears' treatment of Forte is going to have a significant impact on their ability to attract free agents in the future. I'd much rather see some money go to a player like Forte than to a diva WR.

While I agree that I'd rather Forte got the money, this is a business. I thoroughly disagree that how they treat Forte will have SIGNIFICANT impact. Money is king and if you offer enough, people will take it. Obviously Bush didn't take that into consideration.

-Jrabbit · March 23, 2012, 12:04

I agree that cash is king. I believe that's really all Forte is saying as well. The Bears got amazing production out of his rookie contract. Now it's time for the Bears to put their money where their mouth is and reward the guy with a fair deal.

I have no problem with the Bush signing, but I think it's disingenuous to call Forte a whiner when you look at the realities of what he played for (4 years, $3.7 million total), how well he played, and the contracts that lesser RBs are signing. Pointing out what everyone already knows (and generally agrees with) isn't whining in my book.

rah · March 23, 2012, 13:36

Most of the comments in the papers this morning agreed with my whining comments (yes, I know that doesn't prove anything) but it does mean I'm not the only one out there. He did turn down a guaranteed 14 mil last year so he will continue to not get any sympathy from me.

What he played for is really meaningless in this discussion. His new contract will be based on how well he played. (as it should be) And if he is holding out for so much that the bears feel it necessary to use the franchise tag for leverage, he's got himself to blame. The bears have the reputation of offering fair market value to those that deserved it. Ask Urlacher, Cutler, Briggs, Tillman, Hester, and Harris.

All his whining shows that he's more interested in himself than the team that was trying to improve itself by getting another weapon that will make him look better.
Think how much better Forte will look with other weapon attracting attention.

demonbinder · March 23, 2012, 14:09

He wanted money like Peterson got but Peterson should never have gotten that money in the first place, IMHO. Then AP goes out and gets injured which just reinforced the stupidity of giving out those types of contracts and why teams (esp. the Bears) try not to do so. They are accused of being stingy but have actually done well by their star players, as RAH pointed out. So yes, I am starting to think he is being whiny and should have taken what was offered to him last year. I hope they can still work out a deal but I don't like the advice he is getting and think nothing will change and he will keep the franchise tag. Hope I am wrong.

demonbinder · March 23, 2012, 15:10

And in the latest news, Marion Barber has retired. Boy, he had a bad year, but I didn't think it would lead to that!

-Jrabbit · March 23, 2012, 15:52

Amazing how you both conveniently forget all the whining we heard from Urlacher and Briggs before their paydays. And let's not forget: the Bears paid Hester for production that they are never going to see. Forte hasn't (yet) even threatened a holdout. Yet for the past 3 years, he has made less than his backup.

And the $14MM floated to the media to make the Bears appear serious is significantly below market value for what Forte has delivered, and for what his potential is. And don't forget, he is not in the RB danger window of 29-30 years old. The dude is only 25.

And what has he delivered? Since 2008 (his rookie year), more touches and more total yards than any RB except AP and CJohnson. And more catches than any RB in football. Last year, he accounted for 43.6% of the offense in the first half of the year. And he is running behind what can only be charitably described as a mediocre line.

Does he deserve AP/CJ money? Maybe, maybe not. But he sure as hell deserves to make more than the likes of DeAngelo Williams, Marshawn Lynch, and Frank Gore. The market has been set, and I for one would like to see Matt Forte get what he deserves.

Donegeal · March 23, 2012, 16:00

So you're saying since Caroline, Seatle, SF, Minnisota and Tennessee screwed up on their RB contracts, the Bears should follow suit and screw up also?

Al B. Sure! · March 23, 2012, 16:08

Originally Posted by Donegeal

So you're saying since Caroline, Seatle, SF, Minnisota and Tennessee screwed up on their RB contracts, the Bears should follow suit and screw up also?

Yup. Let Forte walk. That's how you make a Super Bowl run!

And Jrabbit, Forte is 26 and will be 27 before the end of next season. Marshawn Lynch, believe it or not, is 4 months younger than Forte.

demonbinder · March 23, 2012, 17:34

I do want him to stay and to get money like the third or fourth best running back. It just seems like he wants the top or #2 money and even though I loved what he did, I still don't think he is worth that much. But I don't think the Bears will raise offer much from last years.