Initial RoN strategy tips

[Ctulu]

Originally posted by albiedamned
...
I researched Science first, then Military. Meantime I filled out my starting lumber camp and built 2 more farms for 5 total farms. Then I built the barracks. From that point forward I did nothing but build military. Two hoplites and a slinger to start, followed by a continuous stream of hoplites as I got the needed resources. ...

I don't see the utility to research science in a rush, okay 10% cheaper military lvl1, but the science lvl 1 resources could have been better spend later on on unit production, every resource counts

... Meantime I had sent my explorer clear across the map and found the enemy. ...

seems unnecesesairy, by default you can guess the location of your enemies capitol, no? And if you let your explorer roam the map like in a normal game you could get additional resources discovering ruins and such.

... My first two hoplites and one slinger reached their capital (I ignored their second city) ...

... forgot about the slinger myself

... He had no defenses at all ...

was the AI on comp/rush also?? It bothers me that AI on rush doesn't necesairilly acts likewise.

...
This strategy would not have worked had the computer been prepared. If he had a tower, he could have garrisoned his civilians there and probably killed my units as they arrived one at a time (as well as possibly researching attrition). And if he had a barracks, a few archers would have killed me, since I only had one slinger. So this was an example of what Brian Reynolds talked about a few weeks ago in Bridger's thread about early rushing. If your opponent has made no preparations at all, then yes, an early heavy inf rush can work. But even the least bit of preparation can probably stop it. So good players just need to make sure they do that bit of early preparation. ...

I see your point GG

[albiedamned]

In response to your comments:

- You're right - researching science was not necessary and I probably could have cut my time down another 30 or seconds without it. It's just a habit thought for me to hit L-T right at the start.

- Interesting point about the explorer. You can guess the general location of the enemy, but knowing the exact location of the capital saves time since you don't have to wander at all with your slow heavy inf looking for it. But getting additional ruins bonuses would help too. Definitely something to consider.

- The AI in my game was not on Computer/Rush, just regular Computer.

One other thing about this attack. It would not have gone well in a game with more than one opponent. Yes I could have rushed and taken out the first opponent with this strategy, but then I would be well behind the other opponents. What would I do with the enemy capital and possibly second city? It's clear across the map from my home base, thus making it very hard to defend. If there were other opponents, I probably would have razed as many of the enemy buildings as I could while using the +500 plunder back at home to catch up on research and get some economic buildings (temple, market) going. But I would still be behind most likely.

[Ctulu]

No doubt, a rush is only effective in a 1v1 (or maybe in a 2v2?), otherwise you suffer tremendously against the other!!

and your point about the explorer has some value to it, but after the discovery of the capitol, i would set him on autoexplore or set some waypoints, you never know if you encounter ruins hey

[albiedamned]

After I discovered the capital I used my explorer to keep wandering around the capital looking for any sneaky stuff the opponent might be trying, like building a tower or barracks. Again, it's a trade off. Going off on auto-explore to find ruins is good, but so is scouting.

[Solver]

Solver - Overall you give very good advice. However I am going to nitpick on the part I quoted above. 5 farms right away on your second city is overkill assuming you've only researched one level of commerce. Your commerce cap will be +100, so with 2 cities giving you 10 each and 5 farms at your first city, you are already at +70. Thus 3 farms is the ideal number until you research second level commerce. Going over the commerce cap is never good, since the excess is wasted.

It's usually balanced with the second Commerce research, if possible. Anyway, it's not possible to put 5 new Farms immediately at 2nd city - I said ASAP, not immediately in my post - there are Timber limits anyway...

One other point where I disagree with you is on building a temple as the first economic building. I usually go for the market first instead. There are valid arguments both ways. However I prefer the market first because it gets me an immediate gold income and lets me get my caravans and merchants started. The only immediate benefit of the temple is to your borders, and to your city strength. Neither of these matter too much in the extreme early game, although of course they do matter a lot later. I usually build the market near my capital, and then the temple near my second city, assuming my second city is further towards the center of the map (which it usually is).

For me, there's often a point before I get my second city, but already have some eccess timber and maybe a citizen with not much to do. That's when the Temple goes up... Market might be up though before city in second temple, yes. But, this is something very debatable in both ways.

[Metaliturtle]

I like the temple more because of the additional city locations it gets you. My early game is characterized with mad city construction, so if I can place a city in an easier-to-defend location closer to the enemy sooner, I will.

BTW I'm slowly warming to this game, CtW is the only way...

[Ctulu]

Just countered the Japanese as they rushed me .. I crushed them like a bugg, it only takes a tower as you said, lvl 1 attrition not even needed.

I just rushed to barracks-tower and popped some units in it, played as Turks.

If you can counter the (IMO) strongest rush nation, you can counter them all!

[albiedamned]

Yup - beating off an AI rush gives you a lot of confidence in your ability to handle the rush in general. But like you said, had you not even researched military at the time you got rushed, you would have been in trouble.

[Ctulu]

just repeat the start (barracks-towers) over and over again, after that you're save and can follow every path you like...R just set the rush time on information age ;p

[Solver]

Attrition level 1 nonethless is a terrific help for rush counters.

[Ctulu]

You're absolutley right

[Solver]

It's of utmost importance on some maps to place the first tower correctly. Early game rushes will not consider of anything more than a few units. This being the case, if you place your tower at a location that is convenient for your enemy to attack, he will have to find a way around the tower, thus having a little bit of the point of his rush (speed) wasted.

[Carch]

See, this is the thing that bugs me about rushes. In order to counter a properly executed rush in a default setup game, you HAVE to research military first and put up a tower. The opponent has already dictated your first few moves.

That just sucks.

It may be a perfectly valid strategy, but I don't like having my moves decided for me.

[Ctulu]

thats why this game can restrict rushes as default, setting a timer or an age
so no worries

[hoju2]

Another good rush stopper is a bunch of spies. In a recent game, I was Industrial-Modern Age, my ally was in Industrial Age (big help) and the one enemy left alive was in Modern-Information. I have a medium sized army Dug In near my cities, and he was sending a diverse group of tanks and artillery to take me down. He would've done it easily to, except I had 5-6 Spies bribing his tanks. After the tanks started fighting each other, I destroyed his Supply Wagons with planes and he was forced to retreat.

Moral: Spies, coupled with Attrition damage, can be a cheap and VERY effect rush counter.