Initial RoN strategy tips

[albiedamned]

By the way, I thought it was 2 researches to go to Classical, not 5. I often don't go to Classical until 5 researches however - all 4 first level plus an extra Science. But I think you only need 2. Each age after Classical then requires 4 more.

[Sky Dog]

Of course, it is a good bit easier to fend off the rush if you get a tower up somewhere and get some attrition goin'.

[Ctulu]

Hey Solver, I never said it was easy !
But I play on though as Chinese and it works (for the moment) (must admit the chinse lend them well to an early attack)

Considering the militia tech in ancient, I always tend to forget to conduct that research , but for now it didn't seem to bother me that much, as most of the time I am ahead of the AI, I think your townbell suffice enough in Ancient

PS: opinion, not fact

[Solver]

I agree - you have to research Military 1 in ancient to be able to handle a rush. However that is all you have to do - you don't necessarily need a barracks or a tower. But if you see the rush coming, you need to start a barracks immediately.

I do like my tower up early. In the capital, maybe, or somewhere, but rather early, because I want to get attrition any moment I... well, want to.

I often don't go to Classical until 5 researches however - all 4 first level plus an extra Science.

Yeah, do that sometimes. I usually try to go Classical with all first levels, though.

[albiedamned]

Ctulu - For the sake of practice, set up a 1 vs 1 game against an AI opponent that is good at rushing, like the Japanese. Select the smallest map, Arena. And in the player dropdown menu, select Computer/Rush for the opponent instead of regular Computer. This will pretty much insure that you'll face a very early rush. You'll probably find that skipping Military research in the Ancient age will get you killed.

[Flayer]

Originally posted by Ctulu
Hey Solver, I never said it was easy !
But I play on though as Chinese and it works (for the moment) (must admit the chinse lend them well to an early attack)

Considering the militia tech in ancient, I always tend to forget to conduct that research , but for now it didn't seem to bother me that much, as most of the time I am ahead of the AI, I think your townbell suffice enough in Ancient

PS: opinion, not fact

The townbell does not suffice when u have 5-6 sets (15-18 units) of Ashiguru beating on your small city

Plus relying on the townbell in Ancient really screws up ur economy.

[Solver]

Forget them Ashiguru, gives me creeps .

And the good RTS players will never use townbell. Or almost never. It justs stops your econ. The good player will quickly select his nearby villagers, the ones immediately at a threat, and throw them into the city then.

[Ctulu]

check this recorded game out (rename it . rec instead of .rec.wav)
chineze(me)-romans on though, and romans are rush nation

...maybe I'm lucky, maybe I'm crap, I dunno, but I win

[albiedamned]

Ctulu - I watched about the first 12 minutes of your replay. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Yes the Romans can be a good rusher, but they didn't rush you in this game. Plus you researched military fairly early (3rd overall), so you would have had a good chance if they had rushed. But earlier you said you rarely research Military in Ancient, thus my original point about being vulnerable to a rush. Next time when you set up the game, select "Computer/Rush" for your opponent instead of regular "Computer" - then the AI will most likely rush and you can practice defending it.

Regarding your rush of the computer, you had a good balanced force with 2 heavy, 2 archers, 1 light. But I'm not sure what your overall objective was. You took out a few civs, a woodcutters camp, and a barracks before the computer wiped your rush out. If your focus was economic, you should have brought more archers and looked just for civilians. If your focus was trying to win the game early, then forget the archers, bring more heavy inf, and go right for the capital.

[Flayer]

Ctulu that replay is pointless. A good rush will hit you under 3 minutes. So what that the Romans are a good rush nation? they didnt rush you in that game.

beating the rush > Japanese Rush staved off replay

[Ctulu]

My focus was to harass him.

Every building you waste is a resource wasted and thus an economic advantage, regarthless if its a military and/or economic structure. the AI also wasted some resources on the civ's/inf's. As a result I augmented my chances to gain the upperhand, which I did In the longer run of this game.

My point is if u get harassed by rushers, harass them first! Use the enemies strat's before they use them on you.

And the computer/rush setting was something I didn't know, thanks for the tip. I'll try that later on the Japanese, perhaps I'll begin to want militia tech earlier on as somone (perhaps you) stated earlier in this post

PS: I will burry my head in shame and let it shop off for my pointlesness

PPS: I never got rushed in Rise of Nations yet so I will no longer continue my pointless remarks until I suffered from a rush and found a way to counter this!

sorry guys 4 waisting your time

[Solver]

A good rush will hit you under 3 minutes.

Under 3 is real good, I'd more say before 4, normally. Now - if you manage to counter the first rush, then, of course, you are at advantage, that's the way it works in RTS.

BTW, typing up stuff for beggining of the game in second window here right now...

[Solver]

Every building you waste is a resource wasted and thus an economic advantage, regarthless if its a military and/or economic structure. the AI also wasted some resources on the civ's/inf's. As a result I augmented my chances to gain the upperhand, which I did In the longer run of this game.

My point is if u get harassed by rushers, harass them first! Use the enemies strat's before they use them on you.

Well, if you tear down a small building at a huge cost of your units, then it's not always worth it...

And you don't exactly hit the rusher with his own weapon. You play at home defensive, and once you manage to beat that rush, you play to exactly the opposite advantage - not a suprise strike, but a strike with a better army, because he had his entire force wiped out in his failed rush, and, if you were good, you're at least on par economically with him.

[Ctulu]

Well, if you tear down a small building at a huge cost of your units, then it's not always worth it...

And you don't exactly hit the rusher with his own weapon. You play at home defensive, and once you manage to beat that rush, you play to exactly the opposite advantage - not a suprise strike, but a strike with a better army, because he had his entire force wiped out in his failed rush, and, if you were good, you're at least on par economically with him.

[Solver]

Updated!

Beggining the game

What you do when you start the game can largely decide whether you win or lose. The decisions made in the first two minutes are absolutely crucial, and a good player will know what is he doing. However, one of the things that makes Rise of Nations shine is the no fixed starting build order - you can generally try several paths, all of them with their upsides and downsides. [Age of Kings note here: remember, the standard 25 villager Feudal Age, with doing exactly the same things every time for the first 10 minutes?]

However, here's an outline of the basic tips at beggining. Pause the game, if single-player. Now, take a look around. You have got your nice little city, a few peasants, and a Library, most likely. The first things you want to do are to get your economy going. While paused, do this: order to build citizens. Now, select your scout. It's not an easy decision now... you can either press Ctrl+E and have him scout automatically, or do it the old fashioned way and scout by yourself, setting waypoints, etc.

The professional player will clearly want to manage the scout manually, to sometimes explore more in one direction or other. However, it can be quite a problem for the less experienced players - it's often easy to forget your scout, and find out that he's sitting there idle, and you have little land discovered. That sucks, especially in RoN, where you have toknow the terrain to select the best locations for your next cities, as well as evaluate the strategic positions for future battles. If you feel that you can't control the scout, sure, let it go automatically. All in all, it will do a pretty decent job, concentrically scouting around your land, revelaing the rare resources (and picking some stuff from ruins!), and then heading on for lands closer to the bad guys.

Now that you have your scout moving and the citizens queued, it's time to go to the Library and select your first technology to research. I do very strongly recommend that Science Level 1, Written Word, is your first item of research. You get the access to Temple, which is something you want early on anyway, for the border booster, and best of all, you get a 10% cost and speed discount on your future researches.

For the start of your economy, of course, Food and Timber matter, and both about equally, although I tend to prioritize Food a little bit. Therefore - my first goal in the game is to get myself up to 5 farms ASAP. You start with 3, and 2 more get built by the first two citizens that come out, thus attempting to ensure continious flow of civilian units from now on. Not that it's enough, though. Now, just as you would, keep pumping them citizens out, till you have also your first Woodcutter's camp full. Try to have the Library researching something whenever you can.

What is the second tech to go for, then? Again, you can basically do anything that you like here, but I will often go for Civics level 1 Government, following Commerce Level 1 Barter then. Why Government? Because it gives you the ability to construct a second city, rather simple it is, no? And when you switch to an empire of two cities, it's where you start to reap many advantages. Notice here - if you're Bantu, you're a BIG step ahead of the game. With your (much!) cheaper cities, you absolutely have to research Civics level 1 ASAP, and then just go for a second city. IIRC, the cost was 15 food 15 timbr for Bantu second city, no?

From your capitol, get 2-3 citizens to a place that seems comfortable enough and build your second city, thus granting yourself another economic center, a border expansion and more options. Yet again, my goal is Food, and I want to fill the second city with 5 farms as soon as I can. I hopefully don't have Timber problems now. If the original forest near capital is big enough, then the full Woodcutter's camp is providing quite an income. If not, then I will also throw a timber gather point here at the second city, but still, 5 more Farms here are the priority. I guess then, it's easy to see why the Commerce level 1 is such a priority, I don't exactly need 10 farms if I have a low commerce cap.

So, a few minutes into the game, I want to have two cities, 10 Farms, some Timber income also from one or two sources, and I generally put a Temple in my capital as soon as I get that extra timber. Now, what to research next? Yet again - if you have the resources, keep the library busy, unless saving the money for an age jump. It now won't exactly matter if you for the Military research ASAP, or if you want Science level 2 first, whatever... look at your resources, evaulate the possibilities. However, you DO NOT want to skip Military level 1 tech. Some people have tried that, and it's a pretty terrible idea. You have to get Military level 1 to be able to build a Barracks or a Tower - basically, anything that can fight. Now, remember the Japanese, with which a good player will go on and attack you at 3 minutes. You know, if you get even a single military unit in your land when you don't even have the Military level 1 researched, you're positively screwed.

Classical Age is indeed a very good thing, but shouldn't be the 100% goal. Sure, you can go to classical without military technology and poor Timber income, but what good it gives? Go to the Classical age at your own convenience, but when you have researched level 1 for all the research branches... I've tried skipping civics at all, and delaying the second city till Classical, but the results were terrible.

Now, sometimes I get that extra Timber coming in fast while I am accumulating the final food for my classical jump. A few things to do early - if you have two cities, get a Market up and build a caravan. That's some wealth for you... In the Classical Age, you probably want to have a Temple in every of your cities. And, here it goes - if you have the Timber, build your first Barracks in Ancient or while going to Classical. It doesn't mean that you immediately have to rush or mass an army, but it's much better to have a building capable of producing some troops at need immediately.

Also, I try to get my first tower up in early Classical or during the advance, even. The reasoning here is rather simple. Attrition level 1 can be researched at the tower, and it matters. Psychologically, the enemy doesn't want to see his troops take that attition, and it also actually helps you defend against those damn rushes. Where to put that first tower? Look at the situation... if your second city seems like an area exposed to attack, then it's there. However, all things being equal, I prefer the tower in the capital, for it is really, really, REALLY annoying if an enemy manages to attack your capital early on.

The above guidelines have been set with a pretty peaceful beggining in mind. Of course, if you intend to be rushing your enemy, it has to be different, one thing being that you need to prioritize your Military research and actually make troops from your barracks. I am still to explore most of the possibilities for the early rushes, and will post on those some other day. For now, however, let me give you this tip - you can harass the enemy VERY early with almost nothing. Note that this requires good (probably manual) scouting, you have to know where the enemy capital is.

Early on, build your Barracks and two heavy infantry (hoplites, probably). Then just send them to attack the enemy library. IIRC, the library will go down to two Hoplies in 1:40. Now, the ball is in your enemy's court. Possibly he still has no military techs, and then you've just disturbed him, and probably got him quickly shifting gears in panic. In the meanwhile, continue the economic buildup, but augment your two hoplites with a slinger unit or two, maybe. Works fine with, say, Romans, who get free units with Barracks anyway. Point is, if you take his Library down, he's seriously behind. And then you can also catch around some hapless civilians running in his town... a great thing to do!

More on rushes and specific civs to follow somewhen .