I was wrong about MOO3

[darcy]

Well, the mere rate of techs is not necessarily a flaw, although the more I get, the less they mean to me.

But why does this complicated system with tech visibility, prototypes, overruns and whatever even exist? I have no influence on it anyway! Why spam my SitRep with it?

It's the same nonsense as Hydroponic Farms and the other DEA improvements; I'm not even allowed to build them myself, so why does the game bother me with them?

I begin to think Moo3 desperately tries to fake complexity. Most of it is either randomized or automated, the rest is meaningless flavour text mixed with a little predictable repetitive button pressing.

[Eric S]

Originally posted by darcy
Well, the mere rate of techs is not necessarily a flaw, although the more I get, the less they mean to me.

But why does this complicated system with tech visibility, prototypes, overruns and whatever even exist? I have no influence on it anyway! Why spam my SitRep with it?

Tech visibility I can understand, since the tech tree isn't the same every time. Sometimes techs are higher, sometimes lower, and once in a while I notice one that just doesn't seem to be there at all (Is this really the case?). Limited visibility lets you know what kinds of things will become practical in the near future, but not the far future.

Overruns are probably there to prevent you from developing a mathematically perfect plan for the fastest possible way to get to tech Y.

Prototypes, I think those are there just to tease you. Yes, you'll get them soon, but you can't have them now, HaHaHa!

It's the same nonsense as Hydroponic Farms and the other DEA improvements; I'm not even allowed to build them myself, so why does the game bother me with them?

I certainly want to know about it, as it means that certain emphasis will soon be shifting.

[Grumbold]

I've been in the senate and had easy wins because I've been allied to nice races who will let my colonists travel anywhere they like to create new worlds. In those circumstances you're right, they don't turn against you fast enough to prevent your senate win. On other occasions I've been sandwiched in small areas between hostile races that take time and tech to defeat and lost that vote. In other games I've not been in the senate at all and lost the game despite being the biggest empire in the game by a significant margin. Like I said, the challenge provided by the Ai is not high at the moment but its at its highest if you've activated a Senate win but turn out not to be a member or play a non-diplomatic race.

The PD bug is a pain in the ass but considering the game is pretty easy at the moment, getting a few ships blown up occasionally by a salvo of "stealth" missiles actually forces you to plan more carefully than you otherwise would. If they patch it so it comes and kicks your ass and drops divisions of battloids on your head regularly then sure, we'll want all our defensive measures to be working perfectly.

There are areas of the game with interface problems. I would say that its not as hard imo to overcome the TF problems as Laz makes out. Unzip spreadsheets.mob, edit one plain text file to the ship and troop ratios that work best for you and you are mostly done. Even without doing that you can always resort to the same way every other space game works - manually queueing the ships you want. Ordering the planet list by industrial output and then hitting your top 20 worlds takes no time at all if you choose to do it that way.

I'm going to enjoy playing the game until the patch(es) come out that address these issues. Some people clearly don't find it fun enough to do that. I was one of those people with Civ III, so I know what it is like to be majorly disappointed with a premium title. Fortunately for me, MoO3 delivers enough of what I wanted to make the rest worth waiting for.

[Alexfrog]

Originally posted by ACEofHeart
Epic in scope, Give it time, Grows on you.. ???
Duh,,Can anyone be MORE specific on what is actually good in this game !!!

I played it for 4 days now and I still look at it as a chore, with no challege and an AI that is totally chicken-shi*

Oh I'm sorry, there is one endearing quality, it made me dig out MOO2.. which I'm appreciating all over again !!

well, this is what my moo3 histroy went like:

first 2 hours: hopelessly overwhelmed

next 10 hours: I hate the game

next 2 days: something clicks, and I start to really like it....I get the hang of macromanagement

next 4 days: after realizing the AI is pathetic, I start to despise it again....I want it to be good, and put my hope in patching. It feels like a chore to me to play it. I dont play it all weekend.

last couple days: I am once again starting to love this game. I think its due to all the breakthroughs we are having in figuring out what everything does, the new mods that are coming out an improving the game, etc....

I am hopeful that a good military AI mod will come out soon and make the AI hard.

So I have gone from confused to hating it to loving it to being very discouraged to really liking it again....

Now I just need a couple patch or mod fixes to make me love it a lot.

[notyoueither]

I am finding the devastation that spies can wreck to be a bit much to be able to accept.

In the latest game I have tried, my Imperial Seat of Government has been destroyed about 4 times now. That same planet has had the System Seat of Government destroyed a couple of times as well. Then there is the Securities Board. That has been blown up the last 5 turns running. They blow it up, the Viceroy immediately rebuilds it, blown up, rebuilt, blown up, rebuilt... I guess the Infantry Division parked around the capitol must be accepting bribes. The many defensive spies I have are having zero effect, that's for sure.

It's turn 100 and I'm not sure if I want to continue the silliness.

[notyoueither]

Did I mention that my spies never last more than 2 turns after being inserted? Boy, they must have a lot of spies!

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I am finding the devastation that spies can wreck to be a bit much to be able to accept.

In the latest game I have tried, my Imperial Seat of Government has been destroyed about 4 times now. That same planet has had the System Seat of Government destroyed a couple of times as well. Then there is the Securities Board. That has been blown up the last 5 turns running. They blow it up, the Viceroy immediately rebuilds it, blown up, rebuilt, blown up, rebuilt... I guess the Infantry Division parked around the capitol must be accepting bribes. The many defensive spies I have are having zero effect, that's for sure.

It's turn 100 and I'm not sure if I want to continue the silliness.

and what about getting a leader, one of two during the whole game, only to have him assassinated two turns later.

The government seat is incredibly annoying, shouldn't they increase the security budget for that, its a fairly obvious target.

Spying makes me hate, hate being in the senate, as I can't stand knowing 5 other civs right away before having any spy modifiers in place.

They do seem overpowered to me. I would much rather have a slider or something to budget for spy protection. The oppresionmeter is just too clumsy to use for such things.

[notyoueither]

Oh, I forgot to mention that my 3 leaders were all dead within 5 turns of each other. Yes, I had defensive spies.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
Spying makes me hate, hate being in the senate, as I can't stand knowing 5 other civs right away before having any spy modifiers in place.

They do seem overpowered to me. I would much rather have a slider or something to budget for spy protection. The oppresionmeter is just too clumsy to use for such things.

I wasn't in the Senate. I made contacts as time went on.

The oppressionmeter is a bit of a laugh too. It assumes that counter intelligence depends solely on oppressing one's own citizens.

So you can't really do anything other than hire 1 spy every 4 or 5 turns (they only live for 40 or 50 turns) or crank up the oppression index. No other options. Silly.

[vmxa1]

I have railed against the spy business as well. I have seen the stuff that Notyoueither mentioned. Some times I can hold it down for a stretch and then it is off any running again.
It is just way to common. Make spies 20 times more expensive or 40 times less effective. If not that then a means to thwart them effectively. I do not mind an occasion event, but in 100 turns you have maybe 80 or more? I am counting all the one you kill and any event to do with spies (even good ones). You may get a few turns with nothing and then you may get 3 with 2-5 sitrep events.
I would hate to see what it is like if I had a lousy Cunning factor.
Dead leaders or as common as troop transports, ok maybe not that bad.
even when the game is going god, I sometime want to quit after the umptenth build got whack, yes they are rebuilt, but it is exasperating.

[notyoueither]

Yes, the effectiveness of spies has to be cranked down, buy as much as a factor of 10.

As it is they are far too cheap, far too effective, and I suspect far too tilted against the human player. Like I said, none of my spies can seem to survive 'in country' for more than a few turns. HTH is the AI doing it?

[CICSMaster]

Basically, what I am reading here is that the UI has been dumbed down to the point that the player cannot really interract with the Game in a strategic way. The Game internals have all the interfaces but they were removed by QS.

Perhaps, Alan was right? Perhaps, QS just didn't get it?

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by CICSMaster
Basically, what I am reading here is that the UI has been dumbed down to the point that the player cannot really interract with the Game in a strategic way. The Game internals have all the interfaces but they were removed by QS.

Perhaps, Alan was right? Perhaps, QS just didn't get it?

Have you played the game? You can do almost anything you want through micromanagement.

"Cannot really interact in a strategic way" is a gross exageration. If you want to mm, you can.

[Ianpolaris]

Asleepathewheel,

You can't micromanage very effectively however because you can not turn the viceroy AI completely off. That is bad design. You should always be able to turn the Planetary AI completely off or the player shouldn't even be able to look at the planetary menus.

As someone else has said: Devs need to learn that options are GOOD! No Dev should assume that just because they like to play a game a certain way that all players will.....esp in a major franchise like Moo. Moo2 (and Moo 1) should have been built on and improved...not radically changed and gutted.

-Polaris

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Ianpolaris
Asleepathewheel,

You can't micromanage very effectively however because you can not turn the viceroy AI completely off. That is bad design. You should always be able to turn the Planetary AI completely off or the player shouldn't even be able to look at the planetary menus.

As someone else has said: Devs need to learn that options are GOOD! No Dev should assume that just because they like to play a game a certain way that all players will.....esp in a major franchise like Moo. Moo2 (and Moo 1) should have been built on and improved...not radically changed and gutted.

-Polaris

The guy I responded to said "the UI has been dumbed down to the point that the player cannot really interract with the Game in a strategic way. The Game internals have all the interfaces but they were removed by QS."

Taking five minutes to look at the game would reveal that thats a false statement. You can lay out the dea for the planets. you can set dev plans. you can do whatever. maybe some things are not as easy as in MoO2, some things are easier.