Lord of the Rings Online

[Asher]

Originally posted by conmcb25
It has everything to do with it. They are both MMO's set in Middle Earth, and that concept was worked on by several publishers and developers.

It is a completely different game designed by a completely different developer with a completely different publisher and completely different objectives.

At least to the point where Turbine said this idea sucks, lets do something different, which is your claim, or are you now admitting thats a wrong assumption, and the real reason they aren't close to being similar is the WoW influence?

Are you finally admitting thats the REAL reason?

What the ****? Seriously.

Turbine didn't say the idea sucked, Sierra/Vivendi did. Why do you think they went to Turbine for help in the 11th hour?

AGAIN, LOTRO is based on an engine and fundamental design that existed for years before WoW was announced let alone available. Turbine has been making games like WoW before Blizzard even considered making World of Warcraft. That is the style of the games they make, it has nothing to do with WoW's influence and everything to do with making a game that let's them re-use their current technology and plays to their expertise and experience.

They're different games, there's not 1 line of code from the original Middle Earth Online in LOTRO. On the other hand, there's many lines of code from the original Asheron's Call in LOTRO.

The only thing connecting MEO and LOTRO is they're both taking place in Middle Earth. That's it.

You don't have the balls nor the intelligence to realize how wrong you are.

Seriously, I'm done now. I can't stand talking to you, it's like walking to an ugly brick wall with an annoying parrot perched on top who says lame catch-phrases from 80's sitcoms.

[conmcb25]

Originally posted by Asher
It is a completely different game designed by a completely different developer with a completely different publisher and completely different objectives.

The developer was carried over from MEO to LOTRO. The constant was Turbine. They worked on both no matter how little they worked on MEO.

The game does not have completely different objectives, they are both about an MMO in Middle Earth. At least you agknowledge your mistake in the quote below.

Originally posted by Asher
The only thing connecting MEO and LOTRO is they're both taking place in Middle Earth. That's it.

At least we are getting somewhere now, and you are admitting your mistake

[Asher]

With each successive post you make, you inch up on my list of Epicly Retarded Apolyton posters. You just leapfrogged CivNation. Congratulations.

[conmcb25]

And to think we were getting somewhere, now you are going backwards again

[Asher]

We're not going anywhere because you just spout bull****, and when I actually take the time to type out substantive posts calling you out on your bull****, you pretend those posts don't exist and then repeat the same bull****. Ad naseum.

I don't have the patience to deal with adult children.

I made a thread about LOTRO because I enjoy it and want to see who else here plays it, you hijack it in a discussion calling it a clone of World of Warcraft even though Turbine was one of the originators of the game design that World of Warcraft basically "cloned" (using your terminologies). I called you out, and ever since then you've been on a crusade armed with lies, bull****, rhetoric, and smoke and mirrors to try to redeem yourself. All you've done is dug a deep, dark hole.

So go away unless you actually want to discuss LOTRO, I'm really ****ing tired of your bull**** threadjack.

[conmcb25]

I am discussing LOTRO.

My whole premise is that the subscription numbers are low for this name brand, and they are low because Turbine made the same old thing.

I have produced sources that substantiate that. Maybe not 100% but certainly better than what you have presented.

If you want to play the game and have fun doing so by all means do. But please don't try to tell me its better than WoW (or whatever and I should play it.) because the bottomline is, if it was that much better than WoW, the subscription numbers would be a lot different than what they, especially with the name recognition.

Feel free to refute with facts but I haven't seen anything substantial yet. Oh ya Legendary Weapons, and a better graphics package, and titles. Woopie Do.

[Asher]

Originally posted by conmcb25
I am discussing LOTRO.

My whole premise is that the subscription numbers are low for this name brand, and they are low because Turbine made the same old thing.

That's not a solid argument. They're "low" for everyone but Blizzard, and not all of them are the "same old thing".

Blizzard got 10m+ subscribers by making the "same old thing" too.

My point has repeatedly been there's many factors here which you are incapable of understanding, quite clearly.

If you want to play the game and have fun doing so by all means do. But please don't try to tell me its better than WoW (or whatever and I should play it.) because the bottomline is, if it was that much better than WoW, the subscription numbers would be a lot different than what they, especially with the name recognition.

Again you rely on the premise that "if it sells more, it has to be better". You are assuming everyone has had the opportunity to play LOTRO and prefer it to WoW, and a tiny fraction of WoW players have probably played LOTRO. A massive majority of WoW subscribers don't know if it's better or not. Even if they all got to play it, as I said -- it's a SOCIAL game. Even if players prefer it, these games are best played with friends. If your friends play one game (and chances are, your friends play WoW if they play an MMORPG at all), you play the one they're playing in and you join their server.

These are all relatively common sense observations that, for whatever reason, are foreign and incomprehensible to you.

[Quillan]

Sidestepping the above argument, I think the total install size was somewhere betweeen 5 and 8 gigs. It's been a while since I had LOTRO installed on my computer, as I quit playing shortly after the release of Book 11 I think it was, so I can't say for certain.

[Asher]

I'll check my install size when I get home. Keep in mind I've got the high-res client pack, it can be smaller without that (significantly, by a few GB).

[conmcb25]

Originally posted by Asher

That's not a solid argument. They're "low" for everyone but Blizzard, and not all of them are the "same old thing".

Blizzard got 10m+ subscribers by making the "same old thing" too.

My point has repeatedly been there's many factors here which you are incapable of understanding, quite clearly.


Again you rely on the premise that "if it sells more, it has to be better". You are assuming everyone has had the opportunity to play LOTRO and prefer it to WoW, and a tiny fraction of WoW players have probably played LOTRO. A massive majority of WoW subscribers don't know if it's better or not. Even if they all got to play it, as I said -- it's a SOCIAL game. Even if players prefer it, these games are best played with friends. If your friends play one game (and chances are, your friends play WoW if they play an MMORPG at all), you play the one they're playing in and you join their server.

These are all relatively common sense observations that, for whatever reason, are foreign and incomprehensible to you.

No, my premise is if it were that much better than the numbers should be higher.

Not that better equals more subscriptions, especially with the name brand.

Thats a big difference, but then again, Im not stuck on black and white thinking. Either its good or bad. Numbers mean everything or they mean nothing.

None of that is truth. It might be an opinion but its not truth.

Ok, let me rephrase the question:

If LOTRO is better than WoW, then why does it have about the same relative amount of subscriptions as every other mainstream MMO released out there post WoW? More or less. And Im talking relatively speaking, not exact numbers just to kill that ridiculous arguement before it occurs.

[Asher]

Originally posted by conmcb25


No, my premise is if it were that much better than the numbers should be higher.

Not that better equals more subscriptions, especially with the name brand.

Do you not understand the contradiction?

If LOTRO is better than WoW, then why does it have about the same relative amount of subscriptions as every other mainstream MMO released out there post WoW? More or less. And Im talking relatively speaking, not exact numbers just to kill that ridiculous arguement before it occurs.

I've already ****ing stated this many ****ing times.

- Social issues, you play where your friends play and everyone plays WoW
- Trial issues, people don't know if LOTRO is better because they've never played it

SIMPLE.

[Ming]

Asher and conmcb25... would you two just chill and stop with the personal crap.

I don't want to hear who started it or he said, I just want the personal stuff to stop.

IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR BOTH OF YOU.

If it isn't, you won't like my solution!

[Asher]

to Ming for cleaning up the incessant threadjack to this glorious thread.

[conmcb25]

Originally posted by Asher

Do you not understand the contradiction?

- Social issues, you play where your friends play and everyone plays WoW
- Trial issues, people don't know if LOTRO is better because they've never played it

SIMPLE.

There is no contradiction, my arguement is an arguement of degree, not black and white. It has to be because the guy tracking the numbers has said his numbers aren't exact. BUT there is a heck of a lot of difference between 150K or 200K and 10 million. So I don't need to be exact. The shear magnitude compensates for precision.

Because I could say the same thing if LOTRO's numbers were say half a million. But the arguement would be weaker because then LOTRO would would be doing better than MOST of the competition.

But they aren't.

You are saying the arguement is bad or good, right or wrong. I don't argee with that logic whatsoever.

Im saying they are none of those, but the trend seems to contradict your premise that its a better game. Because if it was, I believe the numbers should be higher than what they are ESPECIALLY with the name brand. But they aren't, there must be a reason.

I mean who hasn't seen at least one of those movies?

Ok social issues Ill argee with for the sake of arguement. Although I could make an arguement that the name should overcome at least some of that. "The hey its Lord of the Rings, man, we should try it!" "ya lets I wanna be Aragorn, w00t!" Factor.

On the no trial, people don't know if its better, you said yourself the game has gotten good reviews. If it gets good reviews at least some people playing less desireable games should try it, right? And Im sure some have. But the numbers didn't quite pan out despite the reviews now did they?

But thats not the real reason is it

Ya sure Turbine is making $

Sure they opened a new office.

But I still say based on the Franchise they should be opening a new country by now.

[conmcb25]

Ming

I dont think there is anything in my above post that attacking the person, if there is my apologises.

I agree I got a bit out of hand early but I have been trying carefull since then to attack the idea, not the poster.