Deus Ex (Late to the party)

[lord of the mark]

It doesn't matter as long as you +6.

Ok I will TRY to avoid posting here on politics (though ya gotta admit that IS part of what Deus Ex is about)

But you really ought to take a look at the Harry Potter video. Its a trip.

[Unimatrix11]

@lotm: Please note, that i said ´i am not so sure about it anymore´. Which means i take the possibility into account and do not totally neglect it. No more, no less. Without wanting to belittle you at all, posts 217-222 reminded be lot of myself, like 10 years ago (and i might have been smarter back then). Especially the point of ´there is no need for a conspiracy theory in order to explain what happens´. I will leave it there for now.

[lord of the mark]

@lotm: Please note, that i said ´i am not so sure about it anymore´. Which means i take the possibility into account and do not totally neglect it. No more, no less. Without wanting to belittle you at all, posts 217-222 reminded be lot of myself, like 10 years ago (and i might have been smarter back then). Especially the point of ´there is no need for a conspiracy theory in order to explain what happens´. I will leave it there for now.

219 reminded you of 10 years ago? But the harry potter books weren't NEARLY that big a deal back then

[Unimatrix11]

Well, more like the quick the succession of posts. The bombardment of debunking points. I would have fired a round like that, ten years ago. But i think, that already back then, it was out of a mix of ´you dont know anything about history - you only know your whacky c-theories and never even tried to explain things the normal way´ and ´this simply may not be true´. A strange mix of confidence and denial. Today, i admit the denial part and try to be more open about the possibility. Usually, my POV depends on who i am talking to. If it is someone who believes only in the c-theory version, i point out the many mechanisms, that point towards ´funny´ things happening by independent individuals interacting freely. But if someone is bashing on the c-theories, i rather go, like here: ´Well, neither you nor i do really know, now do we? It MIGHT be all conspiracy´.

I do think, that parts of our social system are pretty f***ed up. I have mentioned a few things throughout the threads here, so i will refrain from doing it again, now. I do think, that for maintaining this system, there is little (or maybe even no) need for conspiracy. It might all work via taboo and career. But what about its origins, though? With what intentions was this (interest-)system brought up and by whom?

Another matter of course is, what you call a ´conspiracy´. Say, if in germany two parties make a deal, prior to election, that they will make a coalitions to rule after the elections, by which process a third, popular, party is guranteed to not rule, even if it should get the most (relative - say 35%) votes - is that then ´conspiracy´? And if this deal is done in secret and kept secret? Is it a conspiracy, then? Or just a secret deal? Is it, if the two parties deny the deal and claim instead that they wont ally after the elections? It´s pretty hard to draw a line, i think.

[El_Cid]

I tend to think the more strongly someone attempts to disparage a viewpoint, the closer to the truth you may be. A bit like Asher was with anyone knocking consoles etc

Some things you hear in life are very hard to believe, but like women being created from the rib of a man, i like to give people the ability to believe what they choose.
I just dont think we should all just believe what our governments/media tells us is the only truth(neither in religion - i find all religions are relevant and valid, they are part of the human condition and vital).

Question it all - it's probably the only way to get to the bottom of things, or at the very least become aware of what is done in our names around the world.

I dont see DX as negative at all, and the arguements posted here would prove that.

[lord of the mark]

I tend to think the more strongly someone attempts to disparage a viewpoint, the closer to the truth you may be. A bit like Asher was with anyone knocking consoles etc

Lots of folks disaparage what Asher says = does that make him right? If folks strongly disparaging X makes X right, than in many cases X and the denial of X would both be right. Think about it.

In many cases someone disparages a point cause they really dislike it, find it annoying, deceptively argued etc.

Anyway, I have completed two of the three endings (the Helios and the Tracer Tong endings) Im not motivated to play through most of the same areas again for the illuminati ending. I can probably find the final cutscene for that on youtube or something.

anyway, interesting combo of FPS and RPG, I guess. I liked some of the settings. The plot was twisty, but sometimes predictably so, sometimes not so much. The 'serious theme' well you can gather what I think of that.

I guess I see why this was considered a landmark. Personally I don't feel motivated to replay it, or to play the sequel.

[DrSpike]

People don't disparage my points, and I'm always right. So the link must be the opposite of what El Cid said.

[Unimatrix11]

I know what Blake would say about the argueing-points thing. And i would probably agree with him. He probably would tell the story of the two buddhist monks (which is somewhere here on apolyton, but i am too lazy to look for it, right now), asking their master wether there is an afterlive, one claiming there was, and the other there wasnt. The master hears them both and agrees both times. I have less issue with that, than with someone claiming, he actually knew.

[lord of the mark]

I know what Blake would say about the argueing-points thing. And i would probably agree with him. He probably would tell the story of the two buddhist monks (which is somewhere here on apolyton, but i am too lazy to look for it, right now), asking their master wether there is an afterlive, one claiming there was, and the other there wasnt. The master hears them both and agrees both times. I have less issue with that, than with someone claiming, he actually knew.

Im not talking about what happens in heaven. I'm talking about whether the freemasons, a real group of human beings are part of a conspiracy (alongside the Jews in most versions) to rule the world. The Tzarist okhrana, the Nazis, and Hamas all said yes. I think the answer is no. That aint no koan.

[Unimatrix11]

Well, maybe it´s more like a ´grey´ in some areas (connections exist, but are not so dominant), ´black´ in others (no connections whatsover) and ´white´ in yet others (totally controlled by a very small and interconnected group of people). And also, the ´greys´, ´whites´ and ´blacks´ shifted over time, so that an area that once was controlled by a few (say postal system in Germany) is now ´free´, and vice versa. As i mentioned above, lines are hard to draw on what to call what and it might be, that such a line, if it was to depict reality can only be very blury, so that there is no ´yes´ and no ´no´ to be called correct as an answer to the ´conspiracy´-question.

It might be impossible to give a general answer to the question, but what one can do is to think about the potential of conspiracy working. And there already, there is a very large room for interpretation and a wide field of well reasoned opinions. Take Pearl Habror as an example. Just recently i had a little discussion (with snoopy IIRC) about that one. We came, i think i can say this, correct my snoopy if you disagree, to the common conclusion, that there was enough evidence for the US prior to the attack to avoid surprise. We remained each on our different view-points, as to why it still happened (the surprise) tho, where he said ´mistake´ and i said ´intention´. There is no relyable way to determine, which one is right IMHO. Both might be right, and since there is no way to debunk the other side´s arguments, one should just leave it there. And since whatever someone believes to be real is part of a reality (that person´s reality), at least in that one, it is ´true´. Thus, if you were pushed to give an universal answer to the question, presented with these two alternative answers, it is ligit to say, that both are true (and it might actually be, that the ´one real truth´ was a mix of both, mistake and intention).

[Alinestra Covelia]

Well, maybe it´s more like a ´grey´ in some areas

...like Roswell, you mean?

[Unimatrix11]

Do you know how big the shades of greys are ?

[Alinestra Covelia]

Ingame they appear to be about 2 m tall but very thin, almost emaciated. Maybe only 60 kg or so.

[Unimatrix11]

uhem - yeah, got you the first time... but i thought ´shades´ is also used as in ´sunglasses´ - and you know, like the figurative ´shades of grey´ (as opposed to black&white)... and since greys have big eyes and such... it really sucks to explain jokes gone bad...

EDIT: 2m? Really? This is not like the joke i used to make when i was in the states, telling everybody i was about 5,30m (=two-story-building) tall, right?

[Alinestra Covelia]

Ooh, shades of greys. I like it, but it was too oblique for me to spot the glasses references.

When I first joined this forum in 2000 I remember posting something about "we like having our greys tickled" and then slipping a mayor of Roswell reference there. Somebody caught it immediately.