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  • Sony resurgent?

    I finally got around to having a go on a PS3 this last weekend. Seems to me that reports of its demise may be somewhat premature.

    Having said that, it looks like Nintendo is winning hands down if you consider the competition to be between the Wii, the 360 and the PS3. However, I don't think it's exactly the same market, even though there is considerable overlap. Even given that fact, Nintendo has played it smart and has a real winner on their hands. Having said that, it's not for me as I just don't like those sort of games. More power to the Nintendo fanboys though, as it is a great product.

    The 360 and the PS3 are, however, in direct competition. Some folks have made a big deal of how far the PS3 is behind. Well, it is in the US, but not in Japan, and it isn't that far behind when you compare sales from launch date, as this ars technica article does.

    All things considered, it bodes quite well for Sony. Sure, the PS3 is expensive, but that is mainly due to it having the blu ray drive, and that, I think is its greatest strength. The add ons to the 360 are not cheap, and so the price differential is not that great, but people have said that before and there is no point going over old ground.

    The other factor is available games. There aren't that many PS3 games out there. Then again, this was true of the 360 when I bought mine last year, and there still aren't that many good games out for it (I have about 20).

    There are minor differences between the consoles. For example, the PS3 cross media bar is a far better and cooler looking interface than the 360's blade UI. I liked the XMB on the PSP (which I own), but it is even better on the PS3. It's right up there with some of Apple's better UIs. Another minor difference is that the 360 in current versions is a technical disaster. I think it was Verto told me that his suffered the red ring of death. Mine hasn't, but I don't use it that much. This only counts as a minor disaster, since it seems pretty likely that the next 360 model will fix this problem, and MS is standing behind the ones they have already sold. One or the other may have better graphics and sound, depending on who you believe, but so far there is no clear advantage.

    But the PS3 has two really big advantages, and the longer it can keep pace with the 360 worldwide, the more likely it will eventually overtake it and restore Sony's dominance.

    The first is that the 360 really sucks balls as a media centre. Sure, the software works fine, and I can even stream stuff from my Mac with a cheap shareware app, and I can plug my iPod into it if I want to and have access to all its playlists. That's good, but the problem is that the 360 sounds like a jet engine when you do anything other than play a disc in it (a DVD or CD). This is unacceptable if you want to play anything other than death metal from the hard drive (and the UI for playlists sucks as well). It doesn't matter so much when you are playing games, but it sucks for everything else. I'd hoped to use mine for this, but it just doesn't work very well due to the noise. The PS3 is much quieter.

    But the real difference is the optical drive. The one beef I have with a lot of 360 games is that they are simply too short. Gears of War is a fantastic game, but the solo campaigns are too short. Ghost Recon 2 is even better than GOW in my opinion, but again suffers from a short campaign (in other news GOW is coming to the Macintosh for some unknown reason!). There you have two great games that are hobbled by a lack of content.

    That's all fine and dandy, but it is solely due to the DVD drive in the 360. There just isn't enough room on an ordinary DVD to allow a game with the graphics of GOW and a heap of content. I guess you could buy the add on HD DVD drive, but it still isn't as good as Blu ray because Blu Ray has a higher capacity (just under twice what HD DVD has).

    Moreover, how many people are going to actually buy the HD DVD drive? Developers are going to face a tough choice between releasing 360 games on DVD (with a potential customer base of all users) and much better games on HD DVD (with a fraction of the user base as potential customers). If you are developing for the PS3, you know that everyone is going to have the big capacity drive, so that is not a problem.

    I guess it isn't much of a difference now, since most games will be released for both platforms. But what about 3 years down the road, when games will take up more disk space than they do now? Unless Microsoft releases a Blu Ray drive for the 360, they will still be stuck with a lower capacity format. I know that a lot of people love console roleplaying games. Wouldn't you rather have a game with twice as much content?

    I'm seriously thinking of picking up a PS3 in a few months time. It depends on how good Halo 3 is, and how much larger the PS3 game library is by the end of the year.
    Only feebs vote.

  • #2
    You're trying to summon Asher or what?

    The first is that the 360 really sucks balls as a media centre. Sure, the software works fine, and I can even stream stuff from my Mac with a cheap shareware app, and I can plug my iPod into it if I want to and have access to all its playlists. That's good, but the problem is that the 360 sounds like a jet engine when you do anything other than play a disc in it (a DVD or CD). This is unacceptable if you want to play anything other than death metal from the hard drive (and the UI for playlists sucks as well). It doesn't matter so much when you are playing games, but it sucks for everything else. I'd hoped to use mine for this, but it just doesn't work very well due to the noise. The PS3 is much quieter.
    If you were really serious about your music, you wouldn't use either the 360 or the PS3. I guess their OK for most folks, but for music lovers and audiophiles they simply won't do. You need a dedicated music device to stream your music. But you're right, the 360 certainly is noisy.

    But the real difference is the optical drive. The one beef I have with a lot of 360 games is that they are simply too short. Gears of War is a fantastic game, but the solo campaigns are too short. Ghost Recon 2 is even better than GOW in my opinion, but again suffers from a short campaign (in other news GOW is coming to the Macintosh for some unknown reason!). There you have two great games that are hobbled by a lack of content.

    That's all fine and dandy, but it is solely due to the DVD drive in the 360. There just isn't enough room on an ordinary DVD to allow a game with the graphics of GOW and a heap of content. I guess you could buy the add on HD DVD drive, but it still isn't as good as Blu ray because Blu Ray has a higher capacity (just under twice what HD DVD has).
    BS. It probably has nothing to do with the DVD drive. Look around you. Most games are getting shorter and shorter. Why? While games are getting prettier and prettier, it takes more and more ressources to create the content (time, artists, money, etc.). I bet that GOW could have been twice as long and you could still have all of it on one disc. What takes a lot of disc space is those fancy cutscenes. And there's always the two disc option...

    That said, I agree somewhat with what you're saying. The PS3 launch was a disaster, but now things seem to be looking up. And the PS3 is clearly the better quality console.

    But, despite that, out of the three consoles, I'd still get the 360, if only they'd fix the reliability issues. The 360 has the better games, IMO. The PS3 has a couple of interesting games. And the Wii? Absolutely none, IMO. And I don't really care about Blu-ray or HD-DVD. Have you checked out the movie selection? Mostly crap...
    Last edited by Nostromo; July 19, 2007, 14:20.
    Let us be lazy in everything, except in loving and drinking, except in being lazy – Lessing

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    • #3
      A. PS3 is behind 360 in Europe as well as NA, IIUC

      B. sure its ahead in Japan, but how meaningful is that, with the Wii eating its lunch in Japan?

      C. Being a bit behind in North America isnt real great, what with it having been dominant the last gen, and with big system seller games for 360 on the way. And, IIUC, PS3 steadily losing exclusives.


      The big plus is that they are establishing Blu Ray dominance, but how important will that be? How fast are folks beyond the technophiles going to adopt either flavor of High def DVD, and when will both be supplanted by sale of movies via direct DL?
      "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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      • #4
        I think that Microsoft didn't go with the HD-DVD for games because of increased load times, slower read times, etc. Don't quote me on that, though. I share your complaint about some games being short, but I don't think that is necessarily because of the DVD storage capacity. There's a lot of games that don't come close to filling the DVD. (And the PS3 developers talking about how they have used up almost all 50gb of the Blu-ray disc do so only because they intentionally do everything possible to use as much space as they can.) Some games are very, very short, and it wouldn't matter what format they were released on. If push comes to shove, just release a 2-disc game.

        Right now, the only real issue that the 360 needs to deal with are the hardware failures. The steps taken (extending warranty, etc) will still result in a hassle if your system fails, but at least you'll get a new one for free. Like Agathon mentioned, I had a system fail on me. If given the choice of going with a PS3 or 360, I'd still go with the Xbox. All you hear about the PS3 has to do with either their price points, or the difficulty in developing a game for the system. Companies have shifted resources away from the PS3, which will go to the 360 and Wii. Sony is losing every exclusive that made the PS2 worth getting. GTA is 360-bound, Metal Gear Solid 4 marks the end of the series, Final Fantasy is coming to the 360 and Wii.

        I can't really say anything about the PS3's media functionality, since I've never experimented with that aspect. As for the 360...the UI works. I'm sure there are better alternatives to the Dashboard/blade UI. I don't have any real complaints about it.

        My prediction: Nintendo Wii will come out #1 in terms of numbers sold. If Nintendo can ensure that a steady stream of quality games (such as Metroid) arrive, then Nintendo might even do well in the next console release. The 360 will take a solid, close 2nd place.

        The PS3 will sell better than in the past, but it will never come close to the success of the PS2 (may the POS console RIP very soon).

        The big plus is that they are establishing Blu Ray dominance, but how important will that be? How fast are folks beyond the technophiles going to adopt either flavor of High def DVD, and when will both be supplanted by sale of movies via direct DL?


        This Christmas should mark the beginning of real progress being made, IMO. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players will start arriving in stores at prices much closer to 199.99 (at least HD-DVD). This, along with the increase in HDTV sales, of course. Also, we are starting to see compelling reasons to buy HD-DVDs and Blu-ray discs. The Harry Potter series, for example, will be arriving on HD-DVD very soon. The Matrix came out a couple months ago as well. Other big names can't be too far away: Star Wars, Star Trek, LotR.

        As for downloading movies, that won't happen in a meaningful away for at least another 5 years. Consider the file size: on Xbox 360, a 720p HD movie is around 5GB. HD-DVD and Blu-ray are 1080p, which means a far larger size, which means a longer download time. Broadband isn't fast enough or widespread enough yet. Then of course you need to store these movies - not hard to do, when you consider how cheap hard drives are. But what happens when you have a HD failure? Although I'd imagine you wouldn't actually download a movie and store it at your house - although that might be an option. More likely you'd just stream movies whenever you wanted to watch them.

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        • #5
          Re: Blu-Ray, as Verto says, you can always go multi-disc. I don't think space is really that much of an issue.

          Supposedly Mass Effect will just barely fit on one DVD, and that looks to be one of the longer (and yet still graphically detailed) 360 games yet.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by nostromo
            You're trying to summon Asher or what?
            No. But isn't it nice to be able to have a decent discussion about such matters without him screwing it up.

            If you were really serious about your music, you wouldn't use either the 360 or the PS3. I guess their OK for most folks, but for music lovers and audiophiles they simply won't do. You need a dedicated music device to stream your music. But you're right, the 360 certainly is noisy.
            I am serious about my music. Just not my rock and pop music. Audiophile gear is worth it for classical and jazz, but I'm quite happy to resort to digital music for everything else.

            BS. It probably has nothing to do with the DVD drive. Look around you. Most games are getting shorter and shorter. Why? While games are getting prettier and prettier, it takes more and more ressources to create the content (time, artists, money, etc.). I bet that GOW could have been twice as long and you could still have all of it on one disc. What takes a lot of disc space is those fancy cutscenes. And there's always the two disc option...
            At some point space is going to run out. I don't know if you remember what it was like with home computers in the 80s. I remember people wondering how they were ever going to use all the memory in the 48K Spectrum.

            That said, I agree somewhat with what you're saying. The PS3 launch was a disaster, but now things seem to be looking up. And the PS3 is clearly the better quality console.

            But, despite that, out of the three consoles, I'd still get the 360, if only they'd fix the reliability issues. The 360 has the better games, IMO. The PS3 has a couple of interesting games. And the Wii? Absolutely none, IMO. And I don't really care about Blu-ray or HD-DVD. Have you checked out the movie selection? Mostly crap...
            That's why I said I would wait a while. By the end of next year it should be pretty clear who's going to win, both in terms of consoles and HD formats.

            Having said that, I bought a 360 over a year ago, and there still aren't that many truly great games for it. The only great games are:

            Oblivion
            Winning Eleven (the best soccer game ever made hands down - I also have it on my PSP)
            Gears of War
            Forza Motorsport 2
            Ghost Recon 1 & 2 (excluding the multiplayer, which is lame)

            If you can think of any others that are really good, please let me know (and no, I don't want to play Guitar Hero).
            Only feebs vote.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by lord of the mark

              C. Being a bit behind in North America isnt real great, what with it having been dominant the last gen, and with big system seller games for 360 on the way. And, IIUC, PS3 steadily losing exclusives.?
              It's fine.

              The problem with the PS3 is its price and lack of current games. If it manages to keep approximate pace month by month with the 360 (which it is doing so far), then it will overtake it once the price comes down, because it is a much better console.

              The 360 lacked games when I bought mine, and that was about 4 or 5 months after release.
              Only feebs vote.

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              • #8
                The 360 has one of the best late summer/fall line ups of all time. Mass Effect, Halo 3, GTA 4, Bioshock, Assasian's creed, Blue Dragon, and Army of Two. Before anybody say anything I know some of them are multi-platform.

                Microsoft will probably cut the prices of the 360 once the 65nm goes into production and it gets closer to the holidays.


                As for the whole which is the better console, playstation 3 obviously has better quality, but I don't think most care about the 360 lack of next gen dvd players since 70% of gamers don't even know that their console could play dvds.
                Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. -Homer

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by flash9286
                  The 360 has one of the best late summer/fall line ups of all time. Mass Effect, Halo 3, GTA 4, Bioshock, Assasian's creed, Blue Dragon, and Army of Two. Before anybody say anything I know some of them are multi-platform.

                  Microsoft will probably cut the prices of the 360 once the 65nm goes into production and it gets closer to the holidays.


                  As for the whole which is the better console, playstation 3 obviously has better quality, but I don't think most care about the 360 lack of next gen dvd players
                  QFT.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by flash9286
                    The 360 has one of the best late summer/fall line ups of all time. Mass Effect, Halo 3, GTA 4, Bioshock, Assasian's creed, Blue Dragon, and Army of Two. Before anybody say anything I know some of them are multi-platform.
                    Shooter, shooter, sandbox shooter, shooter, Assassins creed, Blue Dragon, shooter.

                    Not that the PS lineup is any better.

                    Just seems all consoles put out anymore is shooter after shooter. Not that shooters are not fun, mind you. But that's not a what I'ld call a lineup. They all tend to end up more or less the same. I can see buying one shooter, maybe even 2.

                    A year.

                    But 5 over the fall? meh.

                    But that's just me, I guess.
                    One who has a surplus of the unorthodox shall attain surpassing victories. - Sun Pin
                    You're wierd. - Krill

                    An UnOrthOdOx Hobby

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Agathon
                      No. But isn't it nice to be able to have a decent discussion about such matters without him screwing it up.
                      Except that Asher's a good contributor because he's one of the few people who can comment on the technical aspect...

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                      • #12
                        Shooters

                        And I'm pretty sure Mass Effect isn't one.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx


                          Shooter, shooter, sandbox shooter, shooter, Assassins creed, Blue Dragon, shooter.
                          Aside from the two games you've noted Mass Effect isn't a shooter.

                          Actually, from the seven games, there are only three shooters. And of those Bioshock isn't a common or garden shooter as it has RPG elements like System Shock 2. Also, Halo 3 and Army of War are very different kinds of shooter, as the latter is based around co-op play.

                          So I don't agree with your assessment.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Agathon

                            I am serious about my music. Just not my rock and pop music. Audiophile gear is worth it for classical and jazz, but I'm quite happy to resort to digital music for everything else.
                            There is such a thing as high end digital music, you know If you ripped your music in a lossless format, there's no difference with CD's.

                            You could use what I'm using, a Squeezebox. I love it.



                            Not a picture of my setup, unfortunately. The Squeezebox is the small device on the top. There's no hard drive and no fan, so its whisper quiet. It streams the music directly from your PC (your music collection or Internet Radio). There's a digital out, so you can use it as a transport only and hook it up to a fancy external DAC.

                            Or you could use the Transporter, from the same company. Its their high end device:



                            The Transporter is on top of this very cool looking amp.
                            Last edited by Nostromo; July 20, 2007, 13:24.
                            Let us be lazy in everything, except in loving and drinking, except in being lazy – Lessing

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Agathon

                              Having said that, I bought a 360 over a year ago, and there still aren't that many truly great games for it. The only great games are:

                              Oblivion
                              Winning Eleven (the best soccer game ever made hands down - I also have it on my PSP)
                              Gears of War
                              Forza Motorsport 2
                              Ghost Recon 1 & 2 (excluding the multiplayer, which is lame)

                              If you can think of any others that are really good, please let me know (and no, I don't want to play Guitar Hero).
                              I didn't like Oblivion very much...

                              Back on topic Here are some titles that I would try out:

                              - Geometry wars

                              - Settlers of Catan

                              - Call of Duty 2 (I'm playing it now on PC and its fun, but boy do I suck )

                              - Rainbow 6 Vegas

                              And what's the word on the last Splinter Cell game? Chaos theory was very good, but I don't know if Double Agent is any good.
                              Let us be lazy in everything, except in loving and drinking, except in being lazy – Lessing

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