Complexity in FPS games

[Solver]

Solver: have you ever watched any demos of top clans or duelers? You can see through their pov(point of view) and see all the tactics and strategy going on. It might be a bit hard to follow large games like 4v4 tdm or ctf but I would think you would probably understand the basics in duels fairly fast by watching a few demos. Demos are a good tool to learn if you are new to DM. I actually enjoy a good demo as much as a good sports match.

I'm a lazy git, never took part in DM much, not by playing or watching demos. I do also enjoy demos as much as a sports match - for instance, good games (live, if I can catch them) of Enemy Territory.

If you can beat games like Doom 2 on ultra violence you should be able to play DM. It's just a matter if you want to or not and can stand up to losing a million times before you start to win(which is psychologically hard for some people).

Nope . I'm good at Doom 2. Pretty good. Beating it on UV doesn't seem a challenge. Done that many times, and done possibly harder things. Doom 2 is much different from any other game though - there's no vertical aim, only horizontal. So that's one less thing to worry about, AND I have always played Doom2 with my keyboard only, whereas all vertical-aim games require you to use the mouse.

[child of Thor]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Originally posted by child of Thor
Is Halo regaurded as an FPS in this case?

What else would it be? A TBS?

An FPA?? (FirstPersonAdventure)

Well what i was meaning is that compared to Quake/UnrealT etc , i wasn't sure if a game like Halo might be considered 'lite' in comparison?

I just got Metroid Prime now is this an FPS or an FPA

DM is fun - but i always used to get killed by 'invinceble' characters(i worked out it was the moderator chars) as i used to hang out in delta-force and snipe the hell out of eveyone(being a newbie i didn't know this was bad ).

[DrSpike]

Halo is FPS for sure. The clues are in the shooting and the first person perspective.

[Sava]

I could give half a **** about the story. One of the worst FPS's ever was Deus Ex... and it prided itself on having a complex story.

Counter-Strike has no story whatsoever, and it is the best FPS out there. (Counter-Strike:Source now...)

Multiplayer fun is what I look for in a FPS. Stories are dumb. If I want a story, I'll read a book. I'd rather have a single player like Battlefield 1942, that prepares you for MP.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Sava
I could give half a **** about the story. One of the worst FPS's ever was Deus Ex... and it prided itself on having a complex story.

Taxi for 1?

[Solver]

I find it that shooters with a story make for a much more involving SP campaign. I'm a single-player person in general. I prefer Civ single-player, I prefer shooters to have a strong single-player campaign and will download SP maps. RTS I play MP more than SP, but only because the AI is usually incredibly poor, and it becomes a complete pushover shortly. RoN had a better AI, so I went for SP too.

I can't see myself playing a non-free MP-only game. Counter-Stike or Enemy Territory, yeah. But for games that aren't free, I want a good SP.

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Sava
I could give half a **** about the story. One of the worst FPS's ever was Deus Ex... and it prided itself on having a complex story.

Counter-Strike has no story whatsoever, and it is the best FPS out there. (Counter-Strike:Source now...)

Multiplayer fun is what I look for in a FPS. Stories are dumb. If I want a story, I'll read a book. I'd rather have a single player like Battlefield 1942, that prepares you for MP.

Most people except CS players consider CS to be a suckage game
Played it today vs some bots on someone else's computer, and my opinion is still equal to my opinion 5 years ago: it suckz ballz

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by child of Thor
An FPA?? (FirstPersonAdventure)

Well what i was meaning is that compared to Quake/UnrealT etc , i wasn't sure if a game like Halo might be considered 'lite' in comparison?

How so?

I just got Metroid Prime now is this an FPS or an FPA

Metroid Prime has no competitive MP AFAIK, and the 3D incarnation of it is just that, a 3D version of what was a 2D game. Metroid Prime plays more like Zelda than like Halo.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Trajanus
Most people except CS players consider CS to be a suckage game

you mean dumbass noobs who suck at it?

Played it today vs some bots on someone else's computer, and my opinion is still equal to my opinion 5 years ago: it suckz ballz

bots are stupid, throw rocks at them. I don't need to make the case for CS being the best FPS. Just judge by the popularity of the game and the loyalty of its fanbase. It is by far the most played online FPS. And considering it's roots (a mod created by some guys without developer's help), it's done quite well.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Trajanus
Most people except CS players consider CS to be a suckage game
Played it today vs some bots on someone else's computer, and my opinion is still equal to my opinion 5 years ago: it suckz ballz

Back when the mod was just released it was actually fun, but then they went to v1.0 (IIRC) and destroyed the 'fun' part of the game, while making the boring parts even more boring

[child of Thor]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Originally posted by child of Thor
An FPA?? (FirstPersonAdventure)

Well what i was meaning is that compared to Quake/UnrealT etc , i wasn't sure if a game like Halo might be considered 'lite' in comparison?

How so?

I just got Metroid Prime now is this an FPS or an FPA

Metroid Prime has no competitive MP AFAIK, and the 3D incarnation of it is just that, a 3D version of what was a 2D game. Metroid Prime plays more like Zelda than like Halo.

ref Halo - just that a couple of friends i know who have grown up on FPS since Doom(i was a TBS player), laughed when i told them i'd been practising on Halo. I like Halo - but i got the impression amongst the hard core FPS player it wasn't in the major leagues? Anyway as a non-expert FPS player i might have the wrong end of the stick?

And yeah i'm finding MetroidPrime slightly different to a regular FPS game - it does pay tribute to its 2D past, and is kind of interesting for it - but yes it doesn't have a competitive MP mode.
Im finding it also maybe the most complex FPS i've played - in that it has lots of map screens/gadgets/powerups etc - the game is only slightly more complicated than say Halo to control, but its early days for me in the game so maybe i'll just get used to it soon with a bit more playing.

[Traianvs]

Bots may be stupid but that was not my point. I simply dislike the gameplay

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by child of Thor


ref Halo - just that a couple of friends i know who have grown up on FPS since Doom(i was a TBS player), laughed when i told them i'd been practising on Halo. I like Halo - but i got the impression amongst the hard core FPS player it wasn't in the major leagues? Anyway as a non-expert FPS player i might have the wrong end of the stick?

FPS works best on PCs, and beause Halo is an XBox game, they bash it.

Any popular multiplayer game will have people with absolutely sick abilities. It's impossible to call one multiplayer game "harder" than another one, because you're competing against someone who has to face the same difficulties.

In Halo, the players move slower (making them easier to shoot) but it's harder to aim because of the controls. You also can take a lot more hits than in other games.

That neither makes it harder nor easier.

[Maquiladora]

Back when the mod was just released it was actually fun, but then they went to v1.0 (IIRC) and destroyed the 'fun' part of the game, while making the boring parts even more boring

If you're talking about disabling bunnyhopping then I disagree.

If you're talking about some of the new maps I agree. They looked nice but they play like absolute toss, far too many places to hide, which encouraged VERY slow play.

[pg]

Originally posted by child of Thor
ref Halo - just that a couple of friends i know who have grown up on FPS since Doom(i was a TBS player), laughed when i told them i'd been practising on Halo. I like Halo - but i got the impression amongst the hard core FPS player it wasn't in the major leagues? Anyway as a non-expert FPS player i might have the wrong end of the stick?

I haven't played Halo so what I am going to write here is from other things I have read. Basically my understand is it sucks for competitive multiplayer because...

1. the netcode sucks compared to say Counter-Strike(QW based netcode baby!), Quake or Unreal games.

2. bugs, balance, maps, etc.

3. it's not quake

Number one is probably the biggest reason. I wish all FPS had netcode as good as QW(or at least Q3). There are actually leagues in QW or Q3 where Europeans play with Americans because 100ms is playable in Quake(though there will be lots of whining).

Originally posted by Jaguar
Any popular multiplayer game will have people with absolutely sick abilities. It's impossible to call one multiplayer game "harder" than another one, because you're competing against someone who has to face the same difficulties.

There is some truth to that but surely chess is a harder game than checkers? Maybe we could play a guessing game. There is 1 choice A, what is your guess? You have to pick A and the player who guesses first always wins. Surely that is not as hard as a guessing game involving choices A and B. That sounds like a dumb example but it has a real point.

Games are not equal even if you are playing versus a human. This is one reason many diss Counter-Strike IIRC because hits are not totally based on skill but also random chance. Generally the more complex a game is, the harder it is. That's not to say complexity is necessarily good or automatically makes it harder but well done complexity adds much depth.

In Halo, the players move slower (making them easier to shoot) but it's harder to aim because of the controls. You also can take a lot more hits than in other games.

That neither makes it harder nor easier.

I've never played Halo but are you actually making the argument bad controls and slow movement is the equivalent to good controls and fast movement in regards to aiming difficulty?

Do you like Halo a lot(maybe even a fanboy?) and not so much other FPS games?