tes 4 approaches

[pg]

i've never gotten around to playing arena. i need to download it from bethesda someday and try it out. anyone played it?

child of thor - i'd argue you exploit morrowind just by playing it. seriously, the game is so unbalanced so many things you do could be considered exploits in other games. things that are common sense are exploits in morrowind because the game can't cope with them. in any shooter attacking from an elevated position is good tactics but in morrowind it's usually an exploit because the ai will not be able to get to you. that's just one example, there are probably a hundred like that.

[child of Thor]

yes it sure does have its flaws. Still it comes down to the kind of game you like to play.
Being a fan of Civ(a huge addiction in my life!) and games like it, i just got the taste for huge epic type games. The more hours of gaming the better.

For me its the freedom to go where i like and do(within the game limits) what i want when i want. Thats Morrowinds biggest draw for me.

If you want an ultra realistic FPS shooter, with combat physics then play America's Army, if you want a tight detailed story/mission based game with restricted movement then play SplinterCell.

Morrowind has its flaws but its one of the best examples of a free form game around, and great value for money(100's of hours of gameplay).

I'm hoping TES4 will go one better

[Solver]

Yep... and that's also why perfect balance is impossible in Morrowind. Yes, some flaws were easily fixed and luckily done by mods, such as creature weaknesses, but with your freedom to take just about every item or kill everyone and do as you please, the game can't be 100% balanced.

In Morrowind... there are 0 NPCs you can't kill. Also, there's only 1 NPC that you must not kill in order to complete the main quest. As long as that one specific NPC survives, you can still complete it .

[Barinthus]

Originally posted by pg
i've never gotten around to playing arena. i need to download it from bethesda someday and try it out. anyone played it?.

I'd suggest download it while you can, it seems that this offer to let people download the game for free is for a short period of time. I've not played my copy yet, been catching up on Civ 3 epic game. I was planning to just veg out the whole labor day weekend on that game but I had a last minute out of town guest. It was nice having her here and fun too but dammit I need my Civ 3 fix!

[BustaMike]

In Morrowind... there are 0 NPCs you can't kill. Also, there's only 1 NPC that you must not kill in order to complete the main quest. As long as that one specific NPC survives, you can still complete it .

That is absurd. There are at least 10 or 20 you can't kill, at least until their part in the story is done.

[Space05us]

That is absurd. There are at least 10 or 20 you can't kill, at least until their part in the story is done.

no, just one.

[BustaMike]

Here's a list of characters I am certain you cannot kill or the story will not progress off the top of my head. Please tell me where I'm wrong.

The orc in the mage guild, balmora
The dude in the fighter's guild that needs a puzzle box, balmora
Your shirtless skooma addict commander
Divath Fyr
The guy in Alderan that teaches about ashlanders
The wise woman ashlander
Assorted other ashlanders (not the ones you have to kill)
Assorted great house members (not the ones you have to kill)

Now, I agree that you can take out any of these people after they have served their purpose, but doing so before you get their quests stops the game.

[Space05us]

Now, I agree that you can take out any of these people after they have served their purpose, but doing so before you get their quests stops the game.

You have to ask yourself, what purpose do they really serve? Really dont even need the one NPC, if you're quick about it you could probably do it without them.


Cacadejour

[Solver]

First, what I meant is NPCs you can't kill as in are unable to kill. Yes, killing some may break quests. However, there's still only ONE NPC that has to survive for you to complete the main quest.

Highlight below to see how.

Spoiler:

True, there are I think around 30 people you need for the main quest the normal way. However, you can complete the main quest with everyone dead, as long as Yagrum Bagarn (the last living Dwarf) is alive. To complete the main quest, you need the Wraithguard, Sunder and Keening. Normally, you do tons of stuff, then Vivec sees you and gives you Wraithguard. You can, though, kill Vivec and take the Wraithguard, it just won't work. To make it work, you need to talk to Yagrum Bagarn and give him certain items found in the Red Mountain. So, he can activate the Wraithguard for you. As long as he's alive, therefore, it's possible to complete the MQ.

This alternative way is probably harder. You need to do much less stuff, but you have to kill Vivec, which is way too hard for a low-level character. However, if you posess the strength to kill him, anything else will be easy.

[BustaMike]

True, I forgot about that path. Actually, now that I think about it, you can kill him.

Spoiler:

You don't actually need the wraithguard, sunder, or keening if you have screwed around with alchemy. Raising your stats to ridiculous levels allows you to #1 use the sunder and keening w/o the wraithguard because you have sooooo much health, or even better #2 kill the heart in 1 hit with any weapon because your strength is so high.

Sure it's a total exploit, but the game is already broken so who cares.

[BustaMike]

Also, that reminds me of another retarded game flaw. You can have 2 wraithguards at the same time, one for each hand.

[Solver]

Yes, true on all these flaws. Or you can use alchemy without raising attributes and still win:

Spoiler:

An extremely strong Restore Health potion. It restores health you lose from Sunder/Keening quicker than they deal you damage.

However... these ways are truly exploits, and the game isn't meant to be played that way. While the path where you have that guy alive and go the 'other route' is intended by game developers.

[child of Thor]

I think coming from a pen+paper rpg background i just find it very hard to roleplay+use exploits at the same time.......well unless i was to choose to specificaly roleplay an exploit using character

So i tend to be forgiving of the TES games flaws and dont intentionaly use an exploit if i find one

[Solver]

Yup... I don't use exploits as I'm an honest gamer. I've never taken advantage of bugs that let you kill anyone easily or similar stuff. I did, however, at first use all the non-bugged opportunities presented to me or that I found (as a true strategy gamer, hehe). The result - at level 10, I was very rich, took whatever and whenever I pleased, and was generally tough. By level 20, I was almost a god.

[Solver]

Just official....

The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion! In October, tons of new info in a 12-page feauture.