tes 4 approaches

[Dis]

cool

For some reason I didn't like Morrowind when I first bought it. But this past week I have gotten back into it. This after owning the game for a year and a half. I'm still not finished with the game yet, but I'm close. I haven't even explored half the map yet.

I have to say, I'm looking forward to this. But as usual, I don't get too excited.

[Dis]

TES3 is a great game. But it still needs much improvement as a true rpg.

first of all. Dialogue options. There needs to be some. I often only have 1 or 2 choices. You can either give the item they are looking for or not give it. *yawn*. I want dialogue trees.

I hated the character creation system at first, but there are a lot of good things about it. I think if you take away master trainers, you can fix a lot of what's wrong with the character system. You shouldn't be able to train skills past 50.

multiplayer. it would be nice. Although this is such a huge game. But it could still work. They wouldn't necessarliy have to go with you for the entire epic quest. Maybe just hang around for a few minor quests. I'm sure they can figure out some way to work this.

the world is absolutely gorgeous. No changes needed aside from improved graphics. Better stability.

[pg]

actually in a game like this multiplayer is probably out of the question unless they went mmorpg. even then it might be near impossible because of all the ai npcs, number of objects, etc which are very hard to keep track of online. plus morrowind would have made an absolutely ****ty online game with it's balancing problems not to mention all the exploits that would have been possible. seriously, you shouldn't have so much faith that they'll 'just figure it out'.

[Dis]

I don't mind the game being single player though. There aren't enough great single player games anymore. But there are times multiplayer is really great. But the problem arises when developers develop a game with multiplayer specifically in mind, and neglect the single player aspects of the game. This was not a problem with morrowind.

another thing I forgot to mention above was improving the movement AI. It needs a lot of work. I kind of hate those quests where a NPC has to follow you. A bit annoying.

[BustaMike]

I don't see how multiplayer is out of the question at all, as long as it is confined to maybe 4 players max. You could very easily have 1 person controlling the story, while the others are simply sidekicks tagging along. You could also have something similar to Neverwinter, where everyone gets any quest that's triggered at the same time.

The real problem is that I don't trust Bethesda to make anything that isn't riddled with bugs. Morrowind drove me absolutely insane as soon as I figured out how stuff was supposed to work and could see how nothing did. I want desperately for this game to be good. Morrowind showed tremendous innovation and potential, but for me it failed miserably on multiple levels. Given Bethesda's track record (look at Pirates anyone) I just don't see this game being any different.

[Dis]

what are all the bugs exactly? I've heard lots about bugs, but don't see any. Although my game crashes to desktop far too frequently (though I am running emule in the background- not sure if that matters). But I still don't know all the ins and outs of this game.

[BustaMike]

Well, I'll try to keep this relatively short .

Bugs

Duplication bug - Whenever a mod is added or anything in the game is changed really, there is a chance that any number of things in the game may be cloned. Have you ever seen two flags in the same place, or opened a door only to have another one in the same place that you need to open again? Usually this is just an inconvenience, but it can also duplicate creature spawns and NPCs which royally ****s up the game. This is my least favorite problem.

Stat modifying bugs - Lets say you are have 100 speed and are wearing a belt that adds +10 speed. You're display will say 110 speed in white (not the normal tan color) because it's got a bonus. Now lets say something damages your speed by 20. Your speed will now say 90 in red. The problem occurs when you go to restore your stats. If you keep your equipment on, your stats will only restore to 100, not the 110 you're supposed to have. It makes it so you constantly have to unequip and re-equip bonus items when anything damages your stats.

AI Fighting - If you jump over a creature or NPC in combat, they freak out and run away forever.

Clipping Issues - The world is built so that the ground isn't really treated as ground, but just another object. This means that stuff has a good chance to fall through the walls or floor. This sucks when it's a quest item. The dude under Ebonheart with the really good armor is notorious for falling through the floor when you kill him.

Mecantile Skill - totally broken, a higher skill means you pay lower prices, but vendors will also pay you less, so you gain nothing basically.

Soul Trap - combining this with other spells can do freaky ****, like permanent summons and permanent fotification of stats.

Armor Class - meaningless. Your armor class counts for jack ****. It does not make you harder to hit, and it does not reduce damage.

There are also more serious problems like the games freakin' memory leak which makes you restart every so often. It's way worse on Xbox, because it can cause a dirty disc error that just breaks the game.

There are plenty of others, but I covered the ones that bug me the most.

Game balance issues

Stat capping - regardless of race, class, playing style, birthsign, etc. every stat caps at 100. This sucks. It makes it so every character will end up being the same regardless of choices made. There NEEDS to be caps placed on minor and misc. skills and caps on skills and stats based on your race, class, and birthsign. An orc should be able to have a higher max strength, but a lower max intelligence for example. This is the single biggest reason the character building system is totally broken IMO.

Enchanting - Lots of problems here. Enchanting constant effect items is GROSSLY OVERPOWERED. I actually was able to make my guy have 100% resistance to everything in addition to 100% sanctuary = invincible. Likewise, 100% chameleon can be had with only 2 items and it makes it so no enemy in the game will attack you. Enchanting items yourself is pretty much broken also, because for anything decent, even with all 100's on stats, your chances suck; however, take it to an NPC and the success rate is 100%. This makes no sense.

Alchemy - This skill would be fine, if it were capped, but it's not. If you keep making fortify intelligence potions and drinking them, you can end up being able to make potions that fortify stats by the millions for months at a time.

Magic vs. Melee - If you simply use a longsword, you'll become invincible by the time you reach level 25. If you use magic, you'll never be able to cast a decent spell more than once and you'll stuggle through the entire game.

Skill problems - Open spells are far far more effective that lock picking skills. This is stupid, because it means the best thief is a pure mage. Some skills are very easy to raise without training. Others are near impossible. It's also really stupid that the best way to raise your acrobatics is to slam the jump button a crapload.

Training - obviously needs to be capped.

Birthsigns - the Atronach birthsign is 1000 times better than any other birthsign. Any sign that gives you a stat bonus does absolutely nothing, because everything caps at 100 anyway.

[BustaMike]

Really, for me, if the character building issues were resolved, I could ignore the other stuff probably.

[Dis]

that is one I have noticed. I have noticed weird things with my strength. I was thinking about unequipping and requipping my stuff.

My strength should be over 100. It's now 100.

[BustaMike]

Yep, unequip everything, and you'll see some of your stats are red. You've gotta heal with everything off then equip everything again to fix it.

[Dis]

and I kind of agree about AC. I have a damn good AC now. And that Umbra just kicked my ass. Rats still hit me (which is good in a way- I can build up my blocking and heavy armour skill real easy )

And there are a lot of balance issues, no doubt.

[pg]

yeah, tes games have lots of issues. i'm ambivalent about both daggerfall and morrowind. i just hope they get to the point where they decide the focus on gameplay even if it's at the expense of having 2000 npcs instead of 3000. i look at it like this - what's the point of a huge world if 90% of the people playing become bored before they see more than 1/2 of it(i'd wager it's even worse than that)? if they get the gameplay improved the modders will take care of the content. even games like final fantasy have solid gameplay(combat mostly) so you'd think tes 4 could too.

it's really a catch 22. the openess of tes games is directly at odds with balanced, and good gameplay. look at magic for example. there is no way they'll ever be able to balance it as it is now. it's even more impossible because during combat the ai could never react to all the spells the pc could have unless they knew them all too. it's just ridiculous. they need to seriously cut back before any balance could happen.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Wooo... Tes 4 .

If the game is even half as good as Morrowind, it'll be playing it for at least 100 hours.

[BustaMike]

Originally posted by pg
it's really a catch 22. the openess of tes games is directly at odds with balanced, and good gameplay. look at magic for example. there is no way they'll ever be able to balance it as it is now. it's even more impossible because during combat the ai could never react to all the spells the pc could have unless they knew them all too. it's just ridiculous. they need to seriously cut back before any balance could happen.

I dunno. I think most of the balance problems would be really easy to fix, personally. I just think that, like you said, Bethesda was too concerned with creating a crapload of locales and NPCs so the actual gameplay came as kind of an afterthought.

[child of Thor]

Originally posted by BustaMike
Well, I'll try to keep this relatively short .

Bugs

edit.....

AI Fighting - If you jump over a creature or NPC in combat, they freak out and run away forever.

Well i think this could be a feature - if someone jumped over me i'd probably run away too

[vague note: in celtic mythology it was called a 'salmon leap' and celtic heros were suposed to be able to do it as one of their hero skills]

from what i can remember of the elder scrolls games Arena may have been the least buggy?
Daggerfall was worse than Morrowind, although in many ways i prefer it out of all of them - but i'm very forgiving and tend to role play in an rpg, rather than exploit the system.......still hopefully they will eventually come up with a robust game - they've had plenty of chances to get it right