Too many Remakes

[Elias]

Wow thats a lot of replies for one day. while I do enjoy the fact the the races arnt Identical in warcraft it is too much of an RPG wanna be when it should be more of a stradagy game. Im ok with having remakes and expanding on good games but when no one has any original Ideas even If its just going into a clone it just frustrates me. I am still amazed that WC3 is so popular when it just seems like a terrible game to me.

[Zero]

Originally posted by DrSpike
It's not random. Drops are based on creature levels, with items also having 'levels'.

On release stone tokens were imbalanced, because they dropped from creatures too low. There were also doomguards on some maps......most problems were summon based.

Nowadays the item drops are balanced. Yeah you can get nice items if you creep hard creeps, but these wont be available early, and creeping hard creeps is a double-edged sword.

In short, in 1.16 it's fine.

drspike, i didnt bring up teh fact items drops are based on level, cause that weakens my argument.

I know but there is still imbalance among same level items. Yes now everyone will know im just *****ing at a small imperfection. But like you said, summon based items are really powerful in general... especially in early game where you get a unit lead to tank and boost to rush etc.

Also, some monsters are on % to drop items. meaning they may or may not drop anything. Now, most significant level monsters are always 100%, but those low level item advantages can sometimes help. So you might have a lucky day with percentage, but your opponent might not. Getting more heal potion and low level scrolls? that is random.

Well then again, here's a man who perfectly enjoys a poker game without any complaints and we all know how random the hand you're dealt can be..... even if I got five 2,7 off suit in a row.... so I guess im being super *****y about wc3.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Zero


drspike, i didnt bring up teh fact items drops are based on level, cause that weakens my argument.

That's why I brought it up too.

And to the guy that thinks the RPG elements means less strategy, well he should play more. It adds a new dimension to the game, particularly in MP.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Zero

Also, some monsters are on % to drop items. meaning they may or may not drop anything. Now, most significant level monsters are always 100%, but those low level item advantages can sometimes help. So you might have a lucky day with percentage, but your opponent might not. Getting more heal potion and low level scrolls? that is random.

I have never seen no drop from a creature that drops, in over 1000 solo games. If it is a feature of the game it is not for the solo maps, lt, rock, meadows, plunder and rivers.

[Gamecube64]

Semi-Offtopic

No one can say Blizzard doesn't support the game because along with the 1.17 patch we are getting two new neutral heroes . Goblin Alchemist and Firelord. The Goblin Alchemist rides an ogre

[pg]

Re: Re: Too many Remakes

Originally posted by Zero
And except for the pretty graphics, FPS has kind of been that way too. Not much revolutionizing the genre, just bits of gameplay tweaks here and there. I havent had that much difficulty applying what I learned from my Quake1/Painkeep/TForiginal days into any new FPS...

for me this is more of the issue than remakes. i enjoy any good game even if it's a remake or a copycat. what bores me more is when i seem to be a step ahead of the developers in game design experience/expectations. i see this mostly in console games but i find moments in pc games as well where i know what is going to happen in the story or can figure out the gameplay quickly so everything becomes really easy.

just to give an example the first time i play quake 1 maps it only takes me a few minutes to master each dm level and figure out the best routes because i am very experienced with that game. what is disheartening is that this skill basically cares over to all other fps where i've basically become really proficient. it might not make sense but i like sucking for a while and having to learn trail and error. this applies to pretty much all game types now rts/mmorpg/fps/tbs/etc as they are have similar patterns. i don't mind remake but i need new patterns to crack!

[pg]

Originally posted by Trajanus
I don't like RTS games entirely based on unit strats. I want combat strategy. It's a bit like RPGs. It doesn't matter what you do, just attack (and buff, and throw some spells in) and depending on your strategy you will win or not. But you can't make unit movements that allow tactics. That's what I like about AoK. I sort of like unit formations and launching meticulously planned attacks.

heh, are you joking? wc3(which i think your comment is aimed at) and practically all rts have immense combat strategy with formations/complex movements but generally it is much harder to do than aoe because of the micro required. rpgs are generally much staler in combat as they have less intangibles than rts. the intangibles being micro, various timings, unit movement, economy, time management, etc.

[Zero]

Yeah one thing I like about WC3 is that more you're able to micro more reward you get! In any match where you really wanna win, you'd NEVER just sit back and relax. I really learned to appreciate hero because of this. It provides micros to do anytime. ESPECIALLY in the beginning where traditional RTSes have one of those "choose a preprogrammed build order, automate it and relax" routine. Instead, with hero you'd be trying to squeeze in just one more micro action over ur opponent everytime.

just to give an example the first time i play quake 1 maps it only takes me a few minutes to master each dm level and figure out the best routes because i am very experienced with that game. what is disheartening is that this skill basically cares over to all other fps where i've basically become really proficient. it might not make sense but i like sucking for a while and having to learn trail and error. this applies to pretty much all game types now rts/mmorpg/fps/tbs/etc as they are have similar patterns. i don't mind remake but i need new patterns to crack!

unfortunately, you're always going to start out somewhat proficient. After all, to be defined as a same genre, its gonna require sharing some very general rules which you will be all too familiar with. Throwing tweaks and changes in gameplay and adjusting to that will always be a challenge. But I totally understand what you are saying. Picking up all the fighters seem just too natural for me. Even when playing Dragon ball budokai and smash brothers, which is quite radically different from how most fighting game work and has alot of stuff for me to adjust to, i just have edge over other non fighter players that makes it easier for me. You can't get rid of that experience factor when playing the same genre.

This is why I play multiple genres. I don't want to be the #1 in any game really I just enjoy the challenge of competitive play. Challenge runs out (well it never does, i can always seek the best until im #1, but im saying within reason.. not travelling around the world level) in genre due to game dying out, or just being too familiar with it. In that situation, I advise you pickup new genres. Starting completely new at scrub level just whoring knowledge is fun and exciting times. (although yes, getting comfortable with execution issue in new types of games is always a problem.. i think its worth it)

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Gamecube64
Semi-Offtopic

No one can say Blizzard doesn't support the game because along with the 1.17 patch we are getting two new neutral heroes . Goblin Alchemist and Firelord. The Goblin Alchemist rides an ogre

Yes, and despite the fact that many resources are focused on WoW they still have enough staff in the WC3 team to keep on top in the balance war (and introduce new content). Other companies should take notes, and learn.

[Zero]

Originally posted by DrSpike


Yes, and despite the fact that many resources are focused on WoW they still have enough staff in the WC3 team to keep on top in the balance war (and introduce new content). Other companies should take notes, and learn.

one of top ten reasons why im not afraid to purchase blizzard products.

[Urban Ranger]

Re: Re: Too many Remakes

Originally posted by Zero
Whoa, whoa.. Are you saying Warcraft 3 is a remake?

Yes. Essentially it's a rehashed Warcraft 2, which more races and a couple of other things thrown in.

Originally posted by Zero
Remakes are GOOD. Do you know how hard it is to come up with an original game that actually PLAYS good?

Why pay for More of the Same^TM? Why not just play the original?

Originally posted by Zero
Besides most games don't come out near perfect in its first try.

That's what patches and expansions are for. I am not going to pay for something that the developers should have done right in the first place, again.

Originally posted by Zero
I think that the ENTIRE reason why fightiing game genre is so good is because it takes concept that works and refined over 20 year period.

Fighting games suck. The original Street Fighter 2 was good. The rest are More of the Same^TM. Different ways to whip out special attacks. Different kinds of special attacks. Wee.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Gamecube64
Comparing Starcraft to Warcraft 2 is in favor of Starcraft, Warcraft 2 was a good game, but Starcraft was MUCH better.

I don't see how either can be said to be a good game.

For starters, the SP campaigns in both are absolutely horrible. All the scenarios are just of the "puzzle solving" variety, which means you keep doing the same one until you find the sequence of steps to perform, esp. the ones where you cannot build. No strategy is involved. This is both very boring and frustrating at the same time.

The MP games essentially are click-fests plus rote memorisation of the maps. It's just not important enough for me to get CTS.

Originally posted by Gamecube64
Now, Warcraft 3. There are 4 factions, all different. Smaller amounts of units (lower pop cap, units cost more, upkeep that lowers gold income as you have more units) and longer battles (units made stronger by having higher stats) are encouraged to allow for micromanagement.

Ah, micromanagement for a real-time game. Excellent, it's just what everybody has been waiting for. It may even be the cure for cancer.

Originally posted by Gamecube64
All units have some kind of special upgrade or ability, like huntress's owls and moon glaives, the pulverise ability of the Tauren, the berserk ability of the troll berserker (gained by an upgrade from troll headhunter). Even the workers are different!

Ho hum, it's rock, paper, scissors, with Tiger Hand thrown in.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by DrSpike
Yes, and despite the fact that many resources are focused on WoW they still have enough staff in the WC3 team to keep on top in the balance war (and introduce new content). Other companies should take notes, and learn.

That's a brilliant move on Blizzard's part.

It keeps the customers loyal, and gives WC3 a longer shelf time.

[Barinthus]

Originally posted by Zero


one of top ten reasons why im not afraid to purchase blizzard products.

Is Diablo 2 still worthwhile to buy those days? There's no public information on a new Diablo in works right?

[Zero]

Re: Re: Re: Too many Remakes

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Yes. Essentially it's a rehashed Warcraft 2, which more races and a couple of other things thrown in.

................................................ "couple of more things thrown in"



drspike~ take it from here...

Why pay for More of the Same^TM? Why not just play the original?

Would you rather have variety or just one same ol' game. Why not only play poker? Whats the point of inventing games like texas hold em and omaha? So gay.

Fighting games suck. The original Street Fighter 2 was good. The rest are More of the Same^TM. Different ways to whip out special attacks. Different kinds of special attacks. Wee.

If you think original street fighter was good.... I can demonstrate quite easily why it will get boring for you after a 20 or so match against me. I mean, theres absolutely no reason to play any other charatcre other than guile... unless you really enjoy me owning and you losing constantly.

jab sonic boom, walk foward, throw while blockstun, rinse and repeat unless if opponent jumps in strong kick....... wow. sounds fun.... for me.