Too many Remakes

[Zero]

Originally posted by Adagio
But I've seen too many sequels who tries to evolve, but fails to include what make the first game(s) a success... I can mention The Settlers (3+), Battle Isle (2+) and Warcraft (3) as sequels turned too far from the original...

For you maybe... 99% of the gamers think Warcraft evolved for the better.

[Adagio]

99% of the gamers likes rpgs, I don't...

[Jamski]

You do, you just don't like magic (Harry Potter is SO going to kill you)

-Jam

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Zero
For you maybe... 99% of the gamers think Warcraft evolved for the better.

That's just crazy.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Jamski
You do, you just don't like magic (Harry Potter is SO going to kill you)

-Jam

Ok, I should have said I don't like the rpg-type they included in Warcraft 3 (Because of the magic)

[Gamecube64]

Hey it did evolve for the better! Lets look at Warcraft 2 for a moment now, both races units were entirely identical (their stats, not models), except for the spells used by the casters, each race had one pure caster (deathknight/mage) and one heavy melee caster(Ogre magi, Paladin) upgraded from the identical heavy melee units (Ogre Warrior, Knight). There was absolutely no race identity in Warcraft 2 except the spells, which only 2 units on each side had.

Enter Starcraft (now stay with me!) The races were different, very. In generalization Zerg had numbers, Terran were middle-of-the-road, and Protoss had power. Comparing Starcraft to Warcraft 2 is in favor of Starcraft, Warcraft 2 was a good game, but Starcraft was MUCH better. It also had a very good editor that allowed map makers to make custom maps that are very different from the main game.

Now, Warcraft 3. There are 4 factions, all different. Smaller amounts of units (lower pop cap, units cost more, upkeep that lowers gold income as you have more units) and longer battles (units made stronger by having higher stats) are encouraged to allow for micromanagement. All units have some kind of special upgrade or ability, like huntress's owls and moon glaives, the pulverise ability of the Tauren, the berserk ability of the troll berserker (gained by an upgrade from troll headhunter). Even the workers are different! Peasents can call to arms and "quick build" (multiple peasents building a structure at the same time for extra resources to get the job done fast) Wisps have no attack, but can dispell magic and don't cut down trees, they worship them for wood. Acolytes summon all of their buildings, and can unsummon them for 50% resource return. They don't even cut wood, ghouls do that. Peons can load into the orc building for food to give it an attack. The editor is even better than the one for Starcraft, allowing you to edit heroes, units (more than you could in starcraft), even abilities. With a special tool you can even make custom models.

[Adagio]

I didn't say Warcraft 3 didn't have anything good in it... I like (as I've mentioned in other threads about it) the fact that the races are completely different, etc, etc, etc...
But the road where it takes the wrong turn (at least seen from my point of view) is where they made the game much more magical (with heroes and such)... I know they had magic in Warcraft 2 (never played the first game), but back then it was a tolerabel level (or maybe I just didn't hate magic as much back then???), now it's all about magic... it's all about throwing the largest fireball or stomp the hardest in the ground to make an earthquake... not my type...
If they had removed the heroes, the game would have been much more enjoyable...

[DrSpike]

Seriously, you are the only person that has a hatred for magic in games.

Progressing and getting better powers (not all are spells) is part of what makes the game interesting.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DrSpike
Seriously, you are the only person that has a hatred for magic in games.

Progressing and getting better powers (not all are spells) is part of what makes the game interesting.

well im sure glad Sid Meiers Gettysburg and MS Flight sims dont have magic

I take it this is really an argument about the the use of spells in fantasy setting RTS? Like, er, Warcraft?

[Adagio]

Originally posted by DrSpike
Seriously, you are the only person that has a hatred for magic in games.

I know

Originally posted by DrSpike
Progressing and getting better powers (not all are spells) is part of what makes the game interesting.

I like the progressing and such, but I just can't enjoy throwing fireballs or whatnot at the enemy... it just bores the hell out of me



Though for some reason my favorite tv-show is Charmed

[Zero]

Originally posted by DrSpike
Seriously, you are the only person that has a hatred for magic in games.

i dont like medieval/magic kind of games either. Even sword fighting and ****, i prefer star wars kind of theme... and i dont even particularly like star wars. I just prefer everything to be scifi themed.

but im not the type to get really into game immersion anyway. So I DO like all the spells in WC3. All the microing necessary with spells and hero is good and I learned to appreciate just how effective a lil attention to heo and spell management can break some tactics that would otherwise be bull**** cheapass hard to break thru.

[Zero]

I like everything about WC3 except for creeping.

well i dont hate all of the creep concept. I like the creeping/killing and get rewarded in gold/exp/item concept, but I dont like the random item drop concept. It really makes and breaks the game based on something thats completely random. Some heros can turn into quite an early demi-god with right equipments, while benefit jack from backpack load of crap. Lil' randomness is ok in Multiplayer games but its something blizzard didn't have to make it random.

[DrSpike]

It's not random. Drops are based on creature levels, with items also having 'levels'.

On release stone tokens were imbalanced, because they dropped from creatures too low. There were also doomguards on some maps......most problems were summon based.

Nowadays the item drops are balanced. Yeah you can get nice items if you creep hard creeps, but these wont be available early, and creeping hard creeps is a double-edged sword.

In short, in 1.16 it's fine.

[alva]

Originally posted by DrSpike
Seriously, you are the only person that has a hatred for magic in games.

Nope, you can make that two.

[Traianvs]

I don't like RTS games entirely based on unit strats. I want combat strategy. It's a bit like RPGs. It doesn't matter what you do, just attack (and buff, and throw some spells in) and depending on your strategy you will win or not. But you can't make unit movements that allow tactics. That's what I like about AoK. I sort of like unit formations and launching meticulously planned attacks.

I'm really hoping for Rome Total war . Boy how can you say everything has been done already! Rome will pwn! Okay Shogun and Medieval war was the same but the engine is so much bigger and better now. Things can only get better