Yet another bleeding BG thread *sigh*

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Jamski
Viconia. Hmmm...

Nice character, hot babe.... BUT.

But she's just so weak. She has a crappy STR, crappy Thac0, and can only get 1 attack per round, not to mention that simply adding her to the party gives you a -2 rep, so you need to drop her and re-add her every time you buy something (I mean 20% savings here, folks)

I disagree. She has high wisdom, I don't use my Cleric in the front line, they're for spells and ranged support usually, and with an evil party, to RP it at all having a rep above 18 would be heinous, not to mention people leave.

Anomen has a crap wisdom, and Jaheria's isn't so good either. Plus Jaheira needs a strength enhancing item to be any good upfront. Add to that that Viccy's a pure Cleric, so goes up much quicker, and to a higher level, than either of the other two, and her turn undead actually turns them to your side, and she's easily the best healer in the game, IMHO.

Originally posted by Jamski
Jaheria the same, although she's a Druid, so not quite as good because of the huge 1,5000,000 EXP needed for levelling 14 -> 15, this is kind of balanced by the fact she can get the Fighter HLAs which are rather good (unlike the clerical ones) and Nature's Beauty is a great spell

It's 13-14 that is 1,500,000 Exp. Which is why she can never be master of a Druid grove.

Originally posted by Jamski
So, of the clerical choices in BG2, I'm not sure why you think Viconia is the best. Single class clerics are rather poor.

I disagree. Single clerics go up the most levels and get the best spells (much better than Druid ones IMHO). Holy Smite is brilliant for a good party (it doesn't hurt them, but hurts most enemies). With an evil party, I always use Virconia. With a good party I don't, because I like to RP, but she's the best Cleric IMHO. She also has a fantastic dexterity, which means she's hard to hit, and very very accurate with a sling. With 2 or 3 fighters, there's not need for another up front warrior. She's good from range, hard to hit, gets more spells (wisdom and levels) and the best spells (cleric). If you want her up front, which I don't, you can get the Mauler's arm very early on, which gives her strength 18. Plus a use for Crom Fayer, which otherwise rarely get's used (Korgan or Virconia only really, all others seem to use bladed weapons).

[duke o' york]

I thought that I had the hang of this, but now I'm confused again. Which BG are you talking about? Where can I find Viconia, and where can I get this Mauler's Arm?

[Drogue]

I forgot the 65% magic resistance too. She really is a class act, IMHO.

My party atm has just reached Spellhold Dungeon. My Main Character is an upfront, Ranger (level 7 IIRC) dualed to a Cleric (level 15 IIRC). He dual wields Flail of Ages or Mace of Disruption (+2) and Wyverns Tail, has Balduran's Plate, and 19 in STR, WIS, DEX and CON, and 24 (with items) CHA. Minsc and Keldorn are both level 13, Minsc with Lilacor and Heartseeker, Keldorn with Carsomyr, Giant Hair Crossbow and Girdle of Hill Giant Strength. Jahiera is level 11/13 and has Belm, Sling of Seeking and Gauntlets of Ogre Strength. Imoen just joined, with Staff of the Magi and Tuirum's (sp?) bow. With cloak of non-detection, and a staff that makes her invisible, she's a good scout, espedcially if she borrows Drogue's boots of speed Kelsey finishes off the team, and reminded me how good a Sorceror is. He's level 13 IIRC, and has Robe of Vecna, some nice darts, sling+3 and Staff of Rhyn.

Drogue's a Vampire/Undead hunter, in RP. With MoD+2, racial enemy of Vampire, spells all chosen to kill undead (false dawn, sol's searing orb, holy smite, etc) and high level turn undead, he's pretty good. I reckon my party could go toe to toe with just about any foe now, since they're set up top be able to change tactics to kill anything. Shangular was no problem at all (died before he could cast a spell), vampire's die on hit with the MoD, and mages are vulnerable to the Khelbern's/Dispel Magic/Breach combi. I can't remember the last thing that lasted more than a round or two. The only thing I'm going to have a problem with until the end of the Underdark (as far as I've ever gone) is Illuthids. Are there any good strategies for these, baring many potions of genius?

[Drogue]

DoY: Virconia is also an NPC in BGII, like Minsc and Jaheira. Mauler's Arm is a BGII weapon. In fact, aside from changing Khalid+Dynaheir

Spoiler:

who die at the begining of BGII

for Keldorn and Kelsey, my BGI and BGII parties are the same. Minsc, Jahiera, Imoen and Drogue all went through both, and I even altered Minsc and Jaheira to be the same as I left them at the end of BGI (slightly different proficiencies and HP), to make the transition more realistic

Also, some other BGI NPCs make and entrance, like Tiax and Ajantis, although they don't join you.

[Dry]

Originally posted by Jamski
So that's either waste a STR item on someone that's only going to swing once a round, and probably miss, or continually buff her.

I give her the sling +3.
The Seeker +2 (strength bonus) sling goes to Jaheira (2 stars with sling + strength bonus items)
For armor... there are enough light magical armor for her. Just remember to study a few Armor of faith and she'll be fine.

although since Anomen can cast all the same spells while also fighting in the front line...

I repeat, Viccy is my second choice. Anomen is my first, but he is too powerfull and I don't like his personality.
Give me the choice between Anomen and Nalia's aunty and I'll wave my private parts at ... well I hesitate... really.

Well, you see my point. Clerics in 2nd Edition are nice to have in the party, but noone ever wanted to play one.

-Jam

Clerics were never my fav, whatever the edition. In BG2 pure clerics are more than just nice have when you reach level 15+, where, against the magic resistant baddies Mage spells start to fade and Cleric spells (bolt of glory, Fire Storm) start to rule.

[J Bytheway]

Originally posted by Drogue
mages are vulnerable to the Khelbern's/Dispel Magic/Breach combi.

Khelbern's? That doesn't ring a bell...

I can't remember the last thing that lasted more than a round or two. The only thing I'm going to have a problem with until the end of the Underdark (as far as I've ever gone) is Illuthids. Are there any good strategies for these, baring many potions of genius?

Yes... (this is a mild spoiler since trying to figure out how to defeat Illithids yourself is fun IMO)

Spoiler:

Summoning mordy's swords or invisible stalkers or using chaotic commands are the easiest ways, and with your party any of those should work. If you've not got the right spells then you can attract them out one at a time with whichever character is most able to survive the initial barrage of spells and finish them with missile weapons fairly easily.

[Jamski]

The only thing I'm going to have a problem with until the end of the Underdark (as far as I've ever gone) is Illuthids. Are there any good strategies for these, baring many potions of genius?

Summoning Undead is always good, casting cloud spells and closing the door is also a nce trick, and a decent backstab will put a 'flayer on the floor. Oh, and Chaotic Commands to stop the Umber Hulks confusing you

Oh and I forgot another crappy thing about Viccy. Her "Turn Undead" is a real pain.

Oh, as for high or low WIS scores, the effect is so marginal that its not really an issue. The difference between a WIS of 18 and a WIS of 9, is that with 18 you'll have one extra 4th level spell. Wow.

Cleric spells are affected by MR, so they're no better or worse vs MR baddies (except a mage can cast Lower Resistance, making it a non-issue)

I can't remember the last thing that lasted more than a round or two.

Two words : Full Tactics

-Jam

[Dry]

Originally posted by Jamski
Cleric spells are affected by MR, so they're no better or worse vs MR baddies
Two words : Full Tactics

Is that a mod? A patch?
I swear, when I played, there was no escape to Bolt of Glory. No saving throw, no magical resistance... universal destruction spell. Full damage against demons. I think Sunray and such were the same.
Was that a bug ?!?!?!

[J Bytheway]

It's a little-known fact that some spells (of both classes) bypass magic resistance. The complete list (as compiled by Mike over at InfinityScripters) is:

Druid chain lightning
bolt of glory
fire storm
holy word on some of its effects only
unholy word on some of its effects only
earthquake on some effects
implosion
deafness
glitterdust
contagion
teleport field
sphere of chaos on some of its effects
imprisonment
energy drain
comet on some effects

[Drogue]

Originally posted by J Bytheway
Khelbern's? That doesn't ring a bell...

Khelbern's Warding Whip, removes 1 spell protection up to 7th level every round, for a turn.

[J Bytheway]

Originally posted by Drogue
Khelbern's Warding Whip, removes 1 spell protection up to 7th level every round, for a turn.

Ah yes, of course. I forgot that was named after someone, I never use it, but rather take Ruby Ray for the additional spells it affects. Does it really last for a turn? I thought it was only 3 or 4 rounds .

[Drogue]

Nope, 1 turn. It's why I use it. Very few things, especially at this stage, use level 8 or 9 spell protections, so I don't need anything better. Khelbern's let's me cast it once, and then forget about anything else they might put up. Later in the game I'll probably switch

[Jamski]

That list is missing Sunfire (THE Drow killer) too. Although a lot of these bugs are fixed in the Baldurdash fixpack. MR is meant to apply to all magic spells.

As for removing protections, I always think its a pain to have to dispel the physical and the magical ones, so if using a party, Keldorn is always welcome. His double strength dispel magic clears away everything (nearly) in one go

Is that a mod? A patch?
I swear, when I played, there was no escape to Bolt of Glory. No saving throw, no magical resistance... universal destruction spell. Full damage against demons. I think Sunray and such were the same.
Was that a bug ?!?!?!

Tactics is a series of mods that ramp up the difficulty and also stop a lot of cheezy tactics. They REALLY ramp up the difficulty. Never play without the full installation

And yeah, its a bug.

-Jam

[J Bytheway]

Originally posted by Jamski
MR is meant to apply to all magic spells.

It's certainly not meant to apply to imprisonment, and quite possibly not to a couple of the other high level spells, but I agree that most of those are bugs.

[J Bytheway]

Someone was asking about use of scripts in the last thread, and I'm fairly sure the SuperScript is the best one around, which you can get at the yahoo group InfinityScripters (versions for BG1 and 2). The author says he was able to solo through BG2 using it for all combat with almost no user intervention.

I've been testing it this evening, and though it is pretty good - good enough to face the types of opponents encountered in the normal game, it's somewhat hopeless against the enemy AI scripts I've written myself. My late-ToB party, with maximal pre-combat protections, was defeated by 4 out of 5 of the tough opponents (all 8.5MXP spellcasters of one type or another with varying degrees of cheese attached) I've tried them against so far (seperately), and defeated fairly soundly too.

Of course, these enemy AI scripts can be lethal, and I can't usually defeat them myself without either using absurdly cheesy tactics or else getting at least one party member gibbed and most of the rest dying (some 2 or 3 times...) but still, I had hoped for more, and I guess the script is insufficient to get you through tactics.

Personally, I find letting a script rule my characters take smost of the fun out of the game, but playing around with this one is interesting (even if only because I can have fun gloating that my scripts are better ). If you want to use a comprehensive script, I think this is the one to go for.