PROJECT: Playtest (Thread No. 5)

[Ekmek]

Originally posted by LemurMadness
Well I see some nice new improvements, like the expanded advance selecting screen, smooth borders, national flags (althought I don't know how to set the panamanian one). Nice job everyone working on the game

I'll post any details if I find something irregular.

check out concepticon.txt i think i did it for the maya flag, the picture is stored in the pictures folder. So being the Mayans should give you the flag, but you can always give it to another civ (or rename the mayans in your language/gamedata/civ_str.txt )

[Fromafar]

Originally posted by E
I think my crash is related to my barbarianspawnbarian code which even with the limits i added still spams barbarians. I'll have to go into that more so i don't recommend that option in the meantime.

Maybe related, but only indirectly. The Rollback_All_Agents crash was reported earlier (in 2005?), long before you added the barbarian spawn code.

[technical mode]
It looked like the problem occurred when the number of civilisations reached the capacity of the Scheduler. This requires an internal vector reallocation, involving some pretty substandard copy constructors that are most likely invalidating iterators.
When comparing accessing (methods of) an invalid iterator to accessing (methods of) a null pointer, I would say this crash is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike the cargo crash.
[/technical mode]

However, having more barbarians running around/capturing cities could increase the number of revolting civilisations.

[Protra3211]

Well im set to start playing using the playtest and new build. Last game had my nation locked in and trapped with no way out.Have to avoid that by keeping expanded forces pushing against the borders and mangage cities better. Once the AI has a lead on you and is 1/3 more your size the game is almost over.
I will not use the barbarian spawn code for now.By the way in the playtest alone the barbarians love to attack with sea units even in the modern age.Nice work!

[LemurMadness]

I saw barbarians are spawning a unit called "Longbowman" which isn't avaliable for me, althought the information of it appears in the Great Library, it says that the requirements are the same as Archers (It even has the same historical and gameplay information), but it doesnt appears on the build list when Ballistics is researched.

A closer look in the Units.txt, reveals that Feudalism is the advance that makes the Longbowman avaliable. But shouldn't be Feudalism obsoleting Archer?

[Ekmek]

Originally posted by LemurMadness
I saw barbarians are spawning a unit called "Longbowman" which isn't avaliable for me, althought the information of it appears in the Great Library, it says that the requirements are the same as Archers (It even has the same historical and gameplay information), but it doesnt appears on the build list when Ballistics is researched.

A closer look in the Units.txt, reveals that Feudalism is the advance that makes the Longbowman avaliable. But shouldn't be Feudalism obsoleting Archer?

it depends. obsoleteunit and upgradeto flags also obsolete the archer so if either obsleteunit or upgradeunit is available than the archer would be unavailable. if any of these are missing then it wont be obsolete. the longbowman was Tamerlin's creation so hopefully he can explain (or correct) whats going on there. But we take recommendations

glad to see playtesting is getting alive again. I think I found something for my barbarianspawn option but i need to check it out more

[LemurMadness]

Originally posted by E
it depends. obsoleteunit and upgradeto flags also obsolete the archer so if either obsleteunit or upgradeunit is available than the archer would be unavailable. if any of these are missing then it wont be obsolete. the longbowman was Tamerlin's creation so hopefully he can explain (or correct) whats going on there. But we take recommendations

I can see it as a unit to fit the big gap that's between archers and cannons. But what Im trying to say that Cannons should obsolete Longbowmans and Longbowmans should obsolete Archers. Units.txt should be corrected to fit. Also, what's up with that Elephant Warrior? I think it was a non-functional unit, but I don't remmember well.

I've found some information from Wikipedia, that could fit the information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_longbow

English use of longbows was effective against the French during the Hundred Years' War, particularly at the start of the war in the battles of Crecy (1346) and Poitiers (1356), and most famously at the Battle of Agincourt (1415).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longbow

Many men in medieval England were capable of shooting bows from 150-200 pounds (670–900 N) - deformed skeletons of archers have been studied, revealing spur like growths on their bones where the over-developed muscles pulled. However, these men did train weekly from a very young age and their lives depended on being able to use such powerful bows (The Age of Chivalry (1963)). There are modern day examples of men who are quite capable of shooting these bows so we know it is possible. Mark Stretton currently holds the world record for shooting a 200 pound (900 N) longbow.

So I guess adding a Longbowman unit it's ok, it's on the right timeline (Medieval times), and it fits properly in the game. Althought it's not part of vanilla CTP2, I consider it kinda a necesary addition for the game balance.

Now, flanking units............ that's another story

[Ekmek]

Originally posted by LemurMadness
Also, what's up with that Elephant Warrior? I think it was a non-functional unit, but I don't remmember well.

we made it functional because there was debate as to have in game or not. it is in thAE mod and you can only build it if you have the elephants resource (either by trade or in a city radius)

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by LemurMadness

So I guess adding a Longbowman unit it's ok, it's on the right timeline (Medieval times), and it fits properly in the game. Althought it's not part of vanilla CTP2, I consider it kinda a necesary addition for the game balance.

Now, flanking units............ that's another story

We had a discussion about new units some time ago, in this thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105646

Please join in. Especially as we still need to discuss the balance of flanking units.

Speaking of flanking units, i noticed in my last playtest with rev700, the AI doesn't research Tank Warfare until very late in the game. If i had chosen to go to war, it would've been very easy for me to roll over their swarm of Machine Gunners and Artillery. I assume the AI advance choices hasnt been improved much yet.

Once we finalise the strength and balance of each unit (through the thread linked above), we can improve the AI's advance choices to build around that.

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by E

we made it functional because there was debate as to have in game or not. it is in thAE mod and you can only build it if you have the elephants resource (either by trade or in a city radius)

I thought all gameplay changes were going only into the AE mod? But then the Longbowman was in the standard playtest.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by LemurMadness

So I guess adding a Longbowman unit it's ok, it's on the right timeline (Medieval times), and it fits properly in the game. Althought it's not part of vanilla CTP2, I consider it kinda a necesary addition for the game balance.

Now, flanking units............ that's another story

Thanks !

I was about to answer about the Longbowman.

As you write it, the Longbowman fills the gap between early Archers and black powder. Moreover, the @#[}& British proved it was a very effective unit... provided it was used adequately.

[LemurMadness]

Uhm, I guess the Diplomacy Proposal screen is just a little... big.... doesn't fits well in my screen...

By the way, anyone has considered changing Facism (Advance) positon? I think I had proposed it before too, since Facism is a powerful modern era goverment, pacifists civilizations shouldn't know about Facism, and why is Facism a requisite for Nationalism? It should be the contrary...

[Ekmek]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by LemurMadness
Uhm, I guess the Diplomacy Proposal screen is just a little... big.... doesn't fits well in my screen...
[quote]

whats your screen size? I made it fit on my laptop. i think i set it for 600 x800 to use my civ3-esque diplomat photos but I can always reduce them. let me know your size and I'll adjust it.

By the way, anyone has considered changing Facism (Advance) positon? I think I had proposed it before too, since Facism is a powerful modern era goverment, pacifists civilizations shouldn't know about Facism, and why is Facism a requisite for Nationalism? It should be the contrary...

yeah it should be the other way around and i recall that dicuss i though it was swapped

[Protra3211]

200 turns into my game and in 2nd place.On hard level with 7 other civs on largest map.
Enjoying it so far and can see that the AI loves to use it cargo ships alot to move settelers .No CTD so far.I have found that its best to reload CtP2 then add playtest and build this way you know that the problems are with the new build.One thing that seem to happen.When you try to check your score the option will only click open one time then you will have to safe the game and start the game again each time to use it.

[LemurMadness]

Originally posted by E


yeah it should be the other way around and i recall that dicuss i though it was swapped

I would suggest changing the tree in the following way:

Gunpowder + Theology =
Nationalism =
Criminal Code + Facism + Democracy

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by LemurMadness

I would suggest changing the tree in the following way:

Gunpowder + Theology =
Nationalism =
Criminal Code + Facism + Democracy

Super Apolyton Pack 2 has it pretty logical:

Nationalism req. Printing Press
Fascism req. Mass Media & Nationalism