PROJECT: Playtest (Thread No. 5)

[Ekmek]

@Tamerlin:
We'd like to do something like that at Apolyton but not surewhen it will happen. In the meantime most stuff is kept at BureauBert's page

But I don't think we've been tracking user profile changes. The other problem is that I think I lost perspective of what people do and dont know since I've been in the middle of the code. So copy, paste or post stuff that you don't understand or have questions about and I (or someone more knowledgeable) will give an answer. Then I'll do my best to make sure atleast Bureauberts database gets updated as well.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by E
@Tamerlin:
We'd like to do something like that at Apolyton but not surewhen it will happen. In the meantime most stuff is kept at BureauBert's page

But I don't think we've been tracking user profile changes. The other problem is that I think I lost perspective of what people do and dont know since I've been in the middle of the code. So copy, paste or post stuff that you don't understand or have questions about and I (or someone more knowledgeable) will give an answer. Then I'll do my best to make sure atleast Bureauberts database gets updated as well.

Thank you E, I think that we should open a thread and compile BureauBert's informations about the various options.

The modders and coders would then only have to add the new option and its explanation to the document.

Unless someone do it before me, I will open a new thread as soon as I can... which means not now.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by E
SECOND a more important issue. I made a build with 689 and it causes this weird hang at startup, it wont even start up and i have to go to task manager and its not responding. Then i have to go to end process to actually get it to stop. Do you get this too? or should I just do a reinstall?

Obviously you figured out that one. My normal response would be to recompile everything again. Well you could also try to install MS's service pack 6 for MSVC++ 6, for me it seems just a matter of replacing some files and that service pack installer doesn't seem to check where it puts its files.

Originally posted by E
Do i need to even have it in unseen cell? What happens if I make unseen cell a uint64?

No, actually you can't since UnseenCell is a class and not a primitive type like uint16. Well you could do it with m_flag which is the member I was referring to. Actually I kept this a little bit vague so that use TortoiseMerge to check what I changed in UnseenCell.h and UnseenCell.cpp. The only side effect of changing m_flag is that you would destroy savegame compatibility and certainly I would undo the change pretty soon.

So you have to find another way to do what you wanted to do. You can find in that class an example how I hacked into the Serialize method. However I expect for your fix a more general way of doing it. Something that enables you to add more than 5 or 10 or 100 religions.

Originally posted by Tamerlin
There seems to be more and more options available in the userprofile.txt file.

Is there a document where all the options are explained along with their effects in the game when they are not obvious (for non-progammers like me)?

So what is so dificult to understand these option:

str_profile_CloseOnEyepoint                     "Close Message When Clicking Eyeball"
str_profile_ShowExpensive                       "Show Expensive Tile Improvement Effects"
str_profile_ShowOrderUnion                      "Show All Army Orders" 
str_profile_RecentAtTop                         "Put New Messages At Top"
str_profile_CityClick                           "Select City Instead Of Army"
str_profile_DebugSlic                           "Slic Debug Messages"
str_profile_EndTurnWithEmptyBuildQueues         "End turn with empty build queues"
str_profile_RunInBackground                     "Allow end turn in background"
str_profile_Upgrade                             "Unit upgrading"
str_profile_SmoothBorders                       "Smooth empire borders"

Well of course not all of them are actually used or work as they are indended to work. Maybe some of them can be formulated better. But there is not much room to make the descriptions longer. So what are your suggestions for improvement?

-Martin

[Ekmek]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann

SECOND a more important issue. I made a build with 689 and it causes this weird hang at startup, it wont even start up and i have to go to task manager and its not responding. Then i have to go to end process to actually get it to stop. Do you get this too? or should I just do a reinstall?

Obviously you figured out that one. My normal response would be to recompile everything again. Well you could also try to install MS's service pack 6 for MSVC++ 6, for me it seems just a matter of replacing some files and that service pack installer doesn't seem to check where it puts its files.

I found that when I had my Civ3mod folder in the Scenario folder I would get this hang. removing my mod got rid of it Which I *think* is related to those old continent asserts we had before with my mo. I'm thinking to redo the const.txt and diffdb.txt because i think thats where they come from.

No, actually you can't since UnseenCell is a class and not a primitive type like uint16. Well you could do it with m_flag which is the member I was referring to. Actually I kept this a little bit vague so that use TortoiseMerge to check what I changed in UnseenCell.h and UnseenCell.cpp. The only side effect of changing m_flag is that you would destroy savegame compatibility and certainly I would undo the change pretty soon.

So you have to find another way to do what you wanted to do. You can find in that class an example how I hacked into the Serialize method. However I expect for your fix a more general way of doing it. Something that enables you to add more than 5 or 10 or 100 religions.

I'll check it out. Not sure how to do something with 100 religions because that involves a lot of numbered MAPICONS.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by E
I found that when I had my Civ3mod folder in the Scenario folder I would get this hang. removing my mod got rid of it Which I *think* is related to those old continent asserts we had before with my mo. I'm thinking to redo the const.txt and diffdb.txt because i think thats where they come from.

Well now you have two file candidates, so remove one and test whether it is the culprit and then do it with the other, if you don'tknow which database flag causes the problem then we cannot fix the problem.

Originally posted by E
I'll check it out. Not sure how to do something with 100 religions because that involves a lot of numbered MAPICONS.

Therefore we have arrays, so that we don't have to hard encode the stuff and can make it dependent on a database.

Well, still it doesn't keep you from figuring out how to save this piece of information in save games. And obvously you have to figure out how add a ReligionDB.

And by the way, replay the code tag in your post by a quote tag, it mixes up the whole thread.

-Martin

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann

So what is so dificult to understand these option:

str_profile_CloseOnEyepoint                     "Close Message When Clicking Eyeball"
str_profile_ShowExpensive                       "Show Expensive Tile Improvement Effects"
str_profile_ShowOrderUnion                      "Show All Army Orders" 
str_profile_RecentAtTop                         "Put New Messages At Top"
str_profile_CityClick                           "Select City Instead Of Army"
str_profile_DebugSlic                           "Slic Debug Messages"
str_profile_EndTurnWithEmptyBuildQueues         "End turn with empty build queues"
str_profile_RunInBackground                     "Allow end turn in background"
str_profile_Upgrade                             "Unit upgrading"
str_profile_SmoothBorders                       "Smooth empire borders"

I am sorry, perhaps am I dumb, but sentences like "Allow end turn in the background" do not mean anything to me and sentences like "Select city instead of army" or "Show expensive tile improvement effects" are not as explicit as it sounds.

Imagine what a CtP2 newbie would think about these sentences.

Well of course not all of them are actually used or work as they are indended to work. Maybe some of them can be formulated better. But there is not much room to make the descriptions longer. So what are your suggestions for improvement?

-Martin

I think that we should produce a text file (other than the userprofile.txt itself) explaining the effects of the various options (even the simpler ones) along with their impact on the game (if they have one).

[Tamerlin]

I have just installed the new Rev689 and the introductory video is not played adequately anymore, there is sound but no image.

I hope it does not have any effect on the Wonder's videos.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
I am sorry, perhaps am I dumb,

Why I am so tempted to agree. Well you shouldn't belittle yourself.

Originally posted by Tamerlin
but sentences like "Allow end turn in the background" do not mean anything to me

So what about: Allow CTP2 to run in background

So is it more clear what it means, now. In fact it is intended for those who want to test the game in a automatized way. Unfortunatly it doesn't work. Well for now I leave it like this, since I want to know whether this is enough for you.

Originally posted by Tamerlin
and sentences like "Select city instead of army" or "Show expensive tile improvement effects" are not as explicit as it sounds.

Well the CityClick option doesn't work as it is supposed to work and therefore I removed it from the advanced options. Obviously it isn't clear, but what could it mean? And how would you rephrase it then. And consider that you have to obey a character limit for describing these options in the advance options window. The limit is like you have in ShowExpensive the description shouldn't be longer, otherwise the texts doesn't stop et the borders of the advance options window.

The ShowExpensive is a little bit unclear to you. So what do you think it means? And how state it clearly in the same amount of letters as it is done?

Originally posted by Tamerlin
Imagine what a CtP2 newbie would think about these sentences.

Probably nothing, but what he thinks about "Slic Debug Messages". Probably nothing, too. Simply, because he has no idea what slic is and maybe he has no idea what debugging is, either. But if he suddenly gets such a message then it maybe clearer.

Originally posted by Tamerlin
I think that we should produce a text file (other than the userprofile.txt itself) explaining the effects of the various options (even the simpler ones) along with their impact on the game (if they have one).

Well this is actually something about creating a manual the only problem is you have to consider is who reads the f*cking manual (RTFM). And by the way who writes such a manual? Therefore those descriptions should be as clear as possible. And that was the direction I aimed for with my question for improvement suggestions.

So what about the other options, for instance what does Upgrade, what does it do if it is enabled, what does it do if it is disabled?

What about the SmoothBorders option, what does it do? Well in that case I think we don't need to make it such explicitly, because you can try what it does. Just enable it and scroll a tick you see the result.

What about CloseOnEyepoint is it clear to you what this means? Actually the German translation I did is more rediculous than this one, but I have no idea I should translate the eyeball button properly.

And what about the rest what do they mean to you? Well you asked for some work, so here it is.

-Martin

[Protra3211]

Still on my first game using your new build E.I did a recheck E and there are none of my files added to the game.So performance is all based on playtest and build alone.
So far after 176 turns the AI is doing great!Using the cheat I looked at some of the AI factions and most were around 15 cities and 70 units.Not bad.Im still keeping a worried eye on Japan as simple map gifts and white peace withdraw treaties are not working.
Even with 100 gold Japan is starting to move in on me.In some cases a early war can catch the AI of guard with no defense.I thought about this but Japan had twice as many units to out last me so I had 50/50 chance of winning one city but also no defense to hold it.Their not at war with anyone yet .It seems im the main event.Only wars here and there between the AI,s.Over all a smarter AI.Will have to see how the AI performs when at war with me.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann


Why I am so tempted to agree. Well you shouldn't belittle yourself.

What about CloseOnEyepoint is it clear to you what this means? Actually the German translation I did is more rediculous than this one, but I have no idea I should translate the eyeball button properly.

Not very clear neither, I agree.

And what about the rest what do they mean to you? Well you asked for some work, so here it is.

-Martin

I have never said that I would like to do the work myself, I have just said that we should take care about something that could become a problem.

For the moment, I don't have the time to do it myself. Perhaps will I do it when I have the time... but I really don't know when.

[Ekmek]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann

Originally posted by E
I found that when I had my Civ3mod folder in the Scenario folder I would get this hang. removing my mod got rid of it Which I *think* is related to those old continent asserts we had before with my mo. I'm thinking to redo the const.txt and diffdb.txt because i think thats where they come from.

Well now you have two file candidates, so remove one and test whether it is the culprit and then do it with the other, if you don'tknow which database flag causes the problem then we cannot fix the problem.

well its not those two files which I thought since they are affect world shape that they would be the source of the continent error. in debug_ctp.exe I get the continent error (still) and a new aui_blitter eror. One or the other doesn't let the scenario get installed. not sure what the deal is.

[Fromafar]

Originally posted by E
well its not those two files which I thought since they are affect world shape that they would be the source of the continent error. in debug_ctp.exe I get the continent error (still) and a new aui_blitter eror. One or the other doesn't let the scenario get installed. not sure what the deal is.

What continent error are you referring to? Is this the Assert(REPORTED_MAP_CONTINENT_NUMBERING_INCORRECT) from GetContinent? This one is reported when (and only when) you have a predefined scenario savegame.c2g with inconsistent continent numbering, and should not effect game play in any way.

So, you'd better focus on the aui_blitter (which one?) error. Could be another "double surface locking" problem.

[Ekmek]

Originally posted by Fromafar

What continent error are you referring to? Is this the Assert(REPORTED_MAP_CONTINENT_NUMBERING_INCORRECT) from GetContinent? This one is reported when (and only when) you have a predefined scenario savegame.c2g with inconsistent continent numbering, and should not effect game play in any way.

Yeah thats the one I'm getting, But its popping up even though my mod does NOT have a savegame.c2g file because its a mod and not a scenario. i think it say line 453 is the error.

So, you'd better focus on the aui_blitter (which one?) error. Could be another "double surface locking" problem.

I have the details on my other computer but I think it said line 253 of aui_blitter.cpp. But I'll post more info when i get a chance.

[Protra3211]

Still on the same game .On the bottom working my way up and the build so far has been without any CTD.
Its been one of those rare games where the AI has made hardly any mistakes.Most are over 20 cities and over hundred units early in the game.But what has been a key element is the diplomatic action.Japan with the fisrt place military has kept many at cold war stance but no declared wars.But I have a dislike us-completely trust us stance,Must be all the bribes and not kicking any of their units off my land.
Met Mesopotamia next and after a map gift they asked for a peace treaty.A good move by them as they are at war with a stronger nation, Bottom line the AI is using caution before declaring war(there has been wars but short lived) and using withdraw treaties with other nations. Well balanced play like this means AI,s will not ware each other down for mop up attacks by the humand player.
Side Note: I checked the AE mod E, it looks intresting.Will give it a try after this game.
I was wondering will the new E Dilomod work in this version of the build?Also did you include the latest tiles with this build?Thanks again.

[Ekmek]

Protra,

The new diplomod should work with this build. Its built for the english language though because I realized I only enlarged that diplomacy screen. I wish I had a chance to test it out but I believe there shouln't be a problem. BUt post if you do and I respond ASAP.

Your game sounds like its going awesome. maybe post some screenies?