PROJECT: Playtest (the 4th Thread)

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by E
did you try the playtest with the units.txt that have unit upgrades in it? I think this crash is because it tried to upgrade a unit when two or more units were also buildable. I might have an error in the upgrade path. What turn was it, what units available to AI, etc. (ok just post the save game )

the AE folder is supposed to be a new mod with this features. it appears I need to test it too.

Im not using any files from the AE mod folder (yet), i shouldve made that clear.

This crash was using a clean installation, August playtest and revision 630.

Heres the save game anyway, this is where it should CTD when you end turn, but i cant repeat it.

[Ekmek]

Thanks Maq.

Actually the august playtest is Revision 632. Except for the library files that I included (and Martin didn't) the August playtest is actually more up to date.

If MArtin has updated his August playtest links to include the missing lib files I'll take down my 630 revision since its out of date.

[Martin Gühmann]

New playtest 2006.09.09 (Revision 634)

Here is a new version of the Apolyton Edition playtest. This time it comes with *.dll files I forgot last time and in addtion an AI improving bug-fix concerning AI slider handling. Now the AI is much faster in expansion but doesn't seem to build wonders anymore, maybe it now can also build something else. Well actually this should be fixed.

This version of the Apolyton Edition was compiled by using Visual Studio 6.0 Professional including service pack 5. This means you don't need any additional *.dlls.

All you need are these three files. If you already have version from August than you just need the first, the others are the same.

2006.09.09.CTP2.Playtest.1of3.rar
2006.08.26.CTP2.Playtest.2of3.rar
2006.08.26.CTP2.Playtest.3of3.rar

Edit: Removed link. The latest version of the Apolyton Edition can be found here.

Here is the brief changelog since revision 632 from the readme:

2006-09-09 (Revision 634)
Fixed:    AI slider handling
Added:    For modders: STRATEGY_TOO_MANY_CITIES and STRATEGY_NO_REVOLUTON are
          loaded automaticly if present in startegies.txt and not present in
          personalities.txt. This way modders have less work if they want to
          make the AI respect the city limit.

[Artlav]

I tryed searching for this problem, but no result.

There is a bug in the scenario editor - when you edit parts of the map near the water, all sharp beach edges becomes square beach tiles. Same thing, if you draw new landmass - angles looks ugly. Same behavior with the shallow water/deep water edge.

Any way to fix it?
Sorry, if it was mentioned before (same problem was in april 2006 playtest).

[Maquiladora]

If its what i think youre talking about, then you can use the beach tile placement on those square beaches and it should correct the beach to how it should be.

[Artlav]

Thank you for reply, but it seems we think of a diffirent things.
Placing beach tile doesn't help or change anything.

Here's the sceenshoot:
http://www.rumaxclub.ru/etc/ctbg.gif

[Maquiladora]

Youre right it doesnt fix it.

I remember before it would sometimes create those areas but it would fix it to go over them again. Some new problem must have been introduced...

[Ekmek]

I added this to the "unofficial" AI improvement thread but figure I should open it to discussion among the playtesters as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------

stankarp
The AI declare war event is tied to the following.
1) It only triggers once the human reaches a number 1 ranking in something after turn 200.
2) The chances of the ai declaring war vary based on your frenzy level, whether you have a peace treaty with the ai and it's personality.

It was designed to stop a situation where the human gets on top and just picks and chooses where and when he might attack and the ai sit there. Some declarations don't mean much, but if you have a powerfull ai on your border and are being aggressive to others, there is a chance it might join in, adds uncertainty to the game.

It also prevents the situation that happened in my last 2 civ 4 games where I just steam rolled the map in one direction and the other ai just st there and watched.

this was a response that stan had over in his AoM site. AFAIK, nothing like htis exists in the AE. I think it makes good sense considering the late game tedium we sometimes get as well as th human ability to really master modern and future war.

Is there something in strategy we can use, probably as a difficulty option, where we identify if the human gets to rank #1 and have the AI get really hostile for world war? I think something where it could trigger or switch the AI to all out attack. I guess it could be a maxed out integer that gets added to the strategy attack value but is only 0 if the human is not #1.

We could probably add a second difficulty option that is linked to it that triggers the AI to "mobilize" giving it the noUnit Shield cost flags and gold bonuses to make the AI gte really strong. Basically give the AI heaps of advantages until the human is no longer #1.

any thoughts on this?

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by E
I added this to the "unofficial" AI improvement thread but figure I should open it to discussion among the playtesters as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------


this was a response that stan had over in his AoM site. AFAIK, nothing like htis exists in the AE. I think it makes good sense considering the late game tedium we sometimes get as well as th human ability to really master modern and future war.

Is there something in strategy we can use, probably as a difficulty option, where we identify if the human gets to rank #1 and have the AI get really hostile for world war? I think something where it could trigger or switch the AI to all out attack. I guess it could be a maxed out integer that gets added to the strategy attack value but is only 0 if the human is not #1.

We could probably add a second difficulty option that is linked to it that triggers the AI to "mobilize" giving it the noUnit Shield cost flags and gold bonuses to make the AI gte really strong. Basically give the AI heaps of advantages until the human is no longer #1.

any thoughts on this?

I am not opposed to AIs banding against the human player but I strongly disapprove any cheat. I understand that it is far more difficult to improve the AI than it is to add cheats in order to strengthen the AI.

There is also something that should be corrected. An AI declares war on the human player and is soundly defeated. With only a few city left, the AI begs for a peace the player sometimes give. A few turn later, the AI starts bugging the player again although it has no chance to win anything at all in a new war except a total annihilation.

[Protra3211]

Thank you Martin for the work you have done. After playtesting over two hunderd turns have had no problems so far. .AI,s like to spread out and make many improvments. Not to much action yet but this could change very soon.
Because I can change my milatary readiness and gain more production power im already out producing AI factions near me.The AI cannot do this as its always at war setting. Not in first place but army is rated 2nd and in postion to roll over those near me.
Thats why a while back using a older playtest I felt that changes to the DiffDB file were not cheating as AI cannot make changes to readiness level and we can.So this might make the differance up.Could of course not touch this setting as a inhouse rule.
E have you tried your latest build with this playtest yet?

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Protra3211
Because I can change my milatary readiness and gain more production power im already out producing AI factions near me.The AI cannot do this as its always at war setting. Not in first place but army is rated 2nd and in postion to roll over those near me.

Well actually I never looked on this, because I always had my readiness level on maximum. And considering that the slaver attacks were able to start wars, you could be faster in a war than you would like. I think there is a problem with the production of special units and also with wonders and so on which has to be addressed as well.

Originally posted by Protra3211
Thats why a while back using a older playtest I felt that changes to the DiffDB file were not cheating as AI cannot make changes to readiness level and we can.So this might make the differance up.Could of course not touch this setting as a inhouse rule.

Of course the AI should change the readiness level if necessary. In the last playtest versions we had the problem that the AI did not managed its cities properly so that its grows was lower than possible. Therefore my questions: Did you use the readiness settings before? And do you need to use lower readiness settings in order to compete with the AI?

-Martin

[Ekmek]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann
Therefore my questions: Did you use the readiness settings before? And do you need to use lower readiness settings in order to compete with the AI?

Good point Martin. I know for my civ3mod you have to use the sliders to compete. I guess some of the modifications to the DiffDb has made the sliders more relevant, a nice gins vs butter decision a player should have to make.

On one had I understand why the AI should be taught to manage thesliders like the human. But the readiness also affects HP, which a smart human could prestage attack against an AI at peace and really roll over them. Not sure we can get the AI to deal with that, but then again thats life.

In my civ3mod i do have some civs that are set at the middle one (alert). it gives them some production adavantage (and gold for my mod) but they have a bit weaker units.

[Maquiladora]

The readiness sliders are mostly never used anyway. I can only think of a few situations where id lower my readiness. One, id have to be totally isolated on my own continent far away (but still my navy and units fighting barbs at home suffer HP loss), or two, im only using special forces units for my mobile military, neither is very likely situation.

If the AI is going to use the readiness slider it, it needs to be easier to judge when to use it. The readiness would have to be a lot quicker to regain HP for example.

[Protra3211]

Your right Martin.

The truth is I did lower my readiness level to Alert because the AI has been beating me up in the early part of the game.
Keeping it on max setting on hard level it takes a good 400 turns before im able to compete with the top AI factions.With E.s 619 build the AI was able to multi task.
What I mean is there was a good balance between units,buildings and wonders. AI,s had over 40 citie in some cases with a good blend of tile improvments.
Alot more thinking has to go into how you manage your population to keep up. Im thinking about the mods in part because the setting in the DiffDB file almost forces you you to take a risk in doing this.Mind you I did alot of bribing to keep the AI from wanting to fight.
The readiness level can be tweaked to take more turns to get back to full power.Too bad the AI could not be made to know are readiness level.

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Artlav
I tryed searching for this problem, but no result.

There is a bug in the scenario editor - when you edit parts of the map near the water, all sharp beach edges becomes square beach tiles. Same thing, if you draw new landmass - angles looks ugly. Same behavior with the shallow water/deep water edge.

Any way to fix it?

Another way to get around it would be to do all your map editing in the official version (or an earlier playtest) release where the map editor worked, then save or export it to load with the latest playtest, to set up the scenario or whatever.

At least this is what im trying.