An idea

[Son of moose]

Protra3211:

Yes, from what I have read, the Cradle of Man and the Apolyton Pack seem to represent the best of the early CTP2 mods. However, as you so correctly say, the Ages of Man mod (add-on) is currently clearly THE CTP2 mod to have.

Certainly ai is an extremely important aspect for players who are looking for the ultimate challenge on the higher (more difficult) game settings. From what I hear, AOM certainly packs a considerable punch in this regard .... as the ai is virtually capable of "thinking" and effectively countering most player-based strategies.

However, Stan Karp (the developer of the AOM mod), notes that the AOM SLIC code is not compatible with the CTP2 source code (due to a problem with the SLIC Arrays). This is very sad .... but hopefully one of the talented programmers attached to the CTP2 source code project might yet be able to devise an elegant method of being able to introduce the 23 new concepts that Stan added to the AOM mod.

Therefore, in summary, I feel that it would be a great and noble goal for the CTP2 source code project to aim to develop (make available to the community) the ULTIMATE CTP2 MOD (ADD-ON) which incorporates:

# The removal of the vast majority of bugs that so negatively affected gameplay in the original (commercial) version of CTP2

# The incorporation of all the worthy user-made ADDITIVE features that appeared in mods such as the Cradle of Man and the Apolyton Pack as well as (imho most importantly) the Ages of Man mod (with its 23 new concepts)

# The possible incorporation of material from acclaimed mods for some of the other Civ games (such as the Double Your Pleasure mod for Civ 3)

# The possible inclusion of some of the well-beloved features appearing in SMAC for the futuristic CTP2 eras where this technology would belong. [I fully realise this is possibly the most contraversial suggestion as SMAC is one of those games that Civ fans appear to either love or hate.

It would seem that the release of the CTP2 source code has provided the Civ modding community with a seemingly unique opportunity to be able to create the "Civ game to end all Civ games". Sure, the advent of Civ 4 is exciting .... but the ongoing development of a version of CTP2 that effectively combines ALL the best features of the existing Civ games as well as the most appropriate community-based suggestions (wishes) would most surely "knock the socks off" Civ 4 (or, indeed, a future Civ5).

THIS IS THE CHALLENGE ....

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Son of moose

# The possible inclusion of some of the well-beloved features appearing in SMAC for the futuristic CTP2 eras where this technology would belong. [I fully realise this is possibly the most contraversial suggestion as SMAC is one of those games that Civ fans appear to either love or hate.

I agree with this in part, certainly the atmosphere in SMAC is worth recreating, perhaps through changing menu graphics at future ages, useful popups, stuff like that.

The future in CtP2 right now is just like the other ages but with different names, we need to create a different feel and challenge for each age, like AoM but more random. I dont think this should be beyond the reach of the sourcecode project either.

[Son of moose]

Maquiladora:

Thank you for your reply!!

we need to create a different feel and challenge for each age, like AoM

This is an excellent idea that could well serve to raise CTP2 to a level well beyond that of all the other Civ games (including the soon-to-be-released Civ4).

Another important (more general) question is:


HOW CAN WE GET MORE PEOPLE INTERESTED IN THE CTP2 SOURCE PROJECT?

While it is totally understandable that Civ 4 should currently take centre stage, the CTP2 source code project should allow the community to have an unprecidented amount of input into the ongoing (re)development of an existing game.

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Son of moose
HOW CAN WE GET MORE PEOPLE INTERESTED IN THE CTP2 SOURCE PROJECT?

While it is totally understandable that Civ 4 should currently take centre stage, the CTP2 source code project should allow the community to have an unprecidented amount of input into the ongoing (re)development of an existing game.

We just keep going.

I think we need to identify what people hate/d most about CtP2 and stopped playing it, although i cant tell you for sure how interested old players will be in coming back.

Some of the views are just bias, like against stacked combat, public works, i cant see these ever being changed a great deal, but things like the interface, simple and precisely accurate in-game numbers (not just for the obsessives), trade, diplomacy, air and sea combat, can all be improved.

[Son of moose]

Maquiladora :

I think we need to identify what people hate/d most about CtP2 and stopped playing it

Yes .... this would indeed seem to be a good starting point.

[Perhaps along with the features that people really loved about the other Civ games or wished could have been incorporated into them].

Some of the views are just bias, like against stacked combat, public works

From what I have read in the comparative debates about the respective merits of CTP2 and (say) Civ 3, I would contend that these two particular features could well possibly serve to lift CTP2 above the other Civ games.

However, this is just a personal viewpoint from one who would possibly rather micromanage a whole host of other exciting ingame features than dozens (or even hundreds) of villagers.

In addition, the stacked combat model also seems to hold many potential advantages (like realism) over the more conventional Civ military model.

Maybe there is some way in which these two features could be further enhanced in order to make them more attractive to the mainstream Civ community?

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Son of moose
[Perhaps along with the features that people really loved about the other Civ games or wished could have been incorporated into them].

The goal set-out at the beginning of the project was just to fix or complete unfinished features, adding new features will be done via mods as Martin has said.

As ive said i dont think it should be beyond the project to add new features, such as strategic resources, but i dont think we all have the same opinion on this. Plus im not a programmer, so my view is from one side only, the player.

Maybe there is some way in which these two features could be further enhanced in order to make them more attractive to the mainstream Civ community?

They can always be improved, PW could extract resources from food, prod. or commerce, or all of them, to balance the power of production in CtP2, but if you hear the reasons some people dislike public works, "there are no workers", then theres not a lot you can do to change their mind. It would be a massive backward step to incorporate workers just for them.

[Son of moose]

Maquiladora:

the reasons some people dislike public works, "there are no workers", then theres not a lot you can do to change their mind. It would be a massive backward step to incorporate workers just for them.

Indeed!!

[Protra3211]

I dont know how far the team can go with the source code. A bad boy rating might change how we play the game . As human player reaches first place some of the other AI factions will team up as a defensive hege . Its in games like Civ3 -Galciv-Eu2. Can have its down side as Civ3 AI factions tends to gang up to quick making the game a warfest.
In a sense its in CtP2. If you break treaties or use weapons of MD you lose trust and regard of all Civ,s which could lead to war. But AI still does not see you as a threat as you expand your borders late in the game out scoring all factions.
A late game event that could upset your plans might be fun. .Such as a space race-UN vote.

[Martin Gühmann]

Actual the AIs shouldn't combine their powers to beat the human player, just because the human player is human eh well and strong. They should combine their powers, because the others are too strong whether they are AI or human. So what about something like:

The Ix-yies are so aggressive, they are so strong, let's combine our forces to end this.

Or a bunch of AIs askes you:
We have formed the powerfull alleance to end the expansion of the Ix-yies, do you like to jion us.

At least that would give the diplomacy victory another note. But for this we need multiple civ agreements.

-Martin

[J Bytheway]

Originally posted by E
If you are asking for an enhanced editor instead of dealing with the text files I think its a ways out.

Actually I wrote CTPEd ages ago which serves that purpose. It's not as nice as it could be, but it mostly works. In particular it's very useful for auto-generating GL entries.

[Maquiladora]

Actually I wrote CTPEd ages ago which serves that purpose. It's not as nice as it could be, but it mostly works. In particular it's very useful for auto-generating GL entries.

Is there a working link for this anywhere?