DESIGN: Celebration effect ideas?

[MrBaggins]

Happiness just isn't as attractive for a CTP2 civ as it was for a Civ2 civ. Those WLTK days were great, and added some degree of strategic choice.

We certainly don't have to have just one set effect for all governments. Probably, the best approach is to have a few modifiers and options for celebration effects...

like...

FoodCoef
ProdCoef
CommCoef

Maybe something to counteract War Weariness penalties.. maybe even Empire Distance penalties?

While combinations of these would probably be just fine... any other ideas?

[Gilgamensch]

The effects of the WLT*-day shall depend on the government in use.

Some ideas: (as extras)

Anarchie: 10% food
Monarchy: 10% food, -10% crime
Theocraty: 10% Food, -15% crime, maybe even +1 hapiness
Republic: 15% Food, -20% crime, 5% production
Democracy: 20% food, -20% crime, -10% polution.

and similar for the other government-types.

Idea behind, the effect shall make a little bit sense. If you are happy you are more willing to ignore bad 'influence'. Like under Theocraty, you would be even more proud of your gods.
Democracy, you would more ignore the stinking factory next to you

[MrBaggins]

Interesting. And speaking of effects... perhaps an animation for a celebrating city... as a long term goal... like fireworks, or something. Maybe a sound effect when they first celebrate to.

[Gilgamensch]

At least a graphical indication, like reversing colours or similar.

Anything else might be fairly lengthy to go through. Also how do you count first celebration? Is it first time under this government-type, or in general?

[MrBaggins]

When a city first goes above the happiness threshold, I'd say. It could still get annoying, even then I guess, if happiness fluctuated a bit. Perhaps just for the first time it celebrates in a game.

BTW... rather than reducing pollution (which you still MAYBE could have as a possible modifier, but I doubt it,) you should reduce the unhappiness caused by pollution, overcrowding, war, or so on.

[Gilgamensch]

*slapping my head*

Yeap, that's what I was thinking about the unhapiness caused by the polution, Jesus...... where have my thoughts been.

And the first time sounds ok for me.

But there another question: Shall the WLT*-day only bring the benefits the first time it has been reached, or always when it is this day?

[MrBaggins]

Always.

[Gilgamensch]

OK for me.

Actually another boni I was thinking about:

Under militaristic governments and being at war, reducing the maintenance cost of units, but no increase (or low) in food.

[MrBaggins]

Oh, and it might be just a *bit* controversial, but I'd like to see Entertainers pushed back from Drama to the Movie Palace tech... and Double entertainers back to cities with TV improvements.

Of course you'd need to have the sliding scale of crime thats been mentioned. We also, of course, need (pretty easy) methods of suppressing unrest/revolution... or the AI is screwed (and you'd probably want some settings in risks for values that the AI fudges happiness/unrest by too.)

So... for instance, drama would still have theatres, which increased happiness by 2, but also decreased unrest by 5-10... say... and the same with the other happiness improvements til TV.

This ensures that everyone needs (if they are doing things contrary to their government limits,) happiness improvements, like religious buildings, instead of relying on entertainers... which is all I do... pretty much (well.. that and Ramyana... EVERY damn time.)

Crime would become a real issue, rather than being something that was never below a certain level, because you always kept your cities above a certain riot level, with entertainers.

[Gilgamensch]

Actually, I have been just rethinking this idea:

Might be (again) just favouring the human player

A nice boost in a certain time...............

[Gilgamensch]

not sure about this idea. I would rather say then (per entertainer):
Drama: +1 hapiness and -4% unrest
Movie: +2 hapiness and -8% unrest

[MrBaggins]

Yup.. but the problem is that drama comes VERY early. You can always afford to spare pop for entertainers... thus you never have happiness problems, if you keep your eyes on the nation manager (and you plan for government changes at all.) You might lose a bit of efficiency, but thats all.

I don't think drama and... entertainers... should be the omnipotent happiness solution that they currently are. Happiness is really only a concern when you're stretching way beyond your empire size limits, in my experience. You can always manage it, otherwise.

In Civ2... happiness was something you had to really consider... pretty much all the time.

[Gilgamensch]

Civ 2 it was a big problem, because of the fact that units were directly supported by the city and if under rep/dem they caused unhapiness.

This problem doesn't exist in CTP2 (good ). I found it always unrealistic that having just one city 'whining' about the army.

And yes, maybe entertainers are a bit to powerful in the moment, but one problem is: There are not enough city improvments to counter it (like second shrine/theatre/......) Might be another idea, just have the possibilty to build 'multiple'

[MrBaggins]

Maybe increase the number of them, but definitely increase their effect. Like... maybe... double.

[MrBaggins]

And I'm not sure why its a problem that excessive military cause unhappiness under a Democracy or Republic. There should be limitations to what those countries can do... with war.

Seems perfectly realistic to me, particularly if you provide alternate warlike governments.