Design: Random ideas for game balance/micromanagement

[BureauBert]

I'd rather be interested in getting the power for SLICing the AI to using their intelligence Generally I would not like to loose any features and/or units already in the game. Like Solver, putting a couple of spies in a helicopter and sending them to a mission in my favorite enemy's empire while preparing my armies for the unevitable hot war amuses me a lot. And I think that better and better working possibilities for teaching the AI how to use their units would be best, and I am also thinking of Mods (with spies and slavers and clerics and terrorists and real cold wars and bribing armies and possibly new units with new abilities) becoming more fun in MP-games once running reliably and stable. I don't even mind the lawyer currently having no other ability but sueing a corporate branch - maybe some modder will have an idea for an additional ability and possibly SLIC the AI to knowing how to use a lawyer .

[Flinx]

I prefer moving my slavers and spies etc. the only unit I would consider abstracting is the diplomat because it does nothing.

[Gilgamensch]

Originally posted by Flinx
I prefer moving my slavers and spies etc. the only unit I would consider abstracting is the diplomat because it does nothing.

Actually IIRC the diplomat can discover stealth units as well, but otherwise........It is a pain to get the diplomat to any forgein city and most of the time it will be slautered just before arrival.

[The Big Mc]

Yes the diplomat was a bit of a wimp especial on larger maps.

I would like to see him gain more stuff in the game not be annihilated. For example allow him to bribe things like in civ 2 so he can gain his own army on the way to the other civ.

[Gilgamensch]

Originally posted by The Big Mc
Yes the diplomat was a bit of a wimp especial on larger maps.

I would like to see him gain more stuff in the game not be annihilated. For example allow him to bribe things like in civ 2 so he can gain his own army on the way to the other civ.

It was a nice feature, but too much of an exploit

Unless we would restrict it to 1 time per diplomat. This would mean that 1 single threat could be avoided. And further restriction (otherwise we would see hordes of diplomats swarming the enemy land). Only once per like 20 turns.

[The Big Mc]

Ones per 20 turns sounds ok but i would make it 50

[Gilgamensch]

Originally posted by The Big Mc
Ones per 20 turns sounds ok but i would make it 50

Similar what I was thinking about, make it hard for those exploiters..........

[The Big Mc]

I would also like to add a kind of diplomacy to the barbarians where as you could possible offer rewards for things of value to you.

[Ekmek]

Originally posted by Gilgamensch


Similar what I was thinking about, make it hard for those exploiters..........

I'd like to see it just cost more everytime they bribe so it doubles each time or something. I think the bribing diplomat is "realistic" small countries that are focusing on trade then can buy off the motley horde coming for the city. It creates a new challenge and curbs the warmonger urge. (might be even more efective if morale is added)

[Gilgamensch]

Originally posted by E


I'd like to see it just cost more everytime they bribe so it doubles each time or something. I think the bribing diplomat is "realistic" small countries that are focusing on trade then can buy off the motley horde coming for the city. It creates a new challenge and curbs the warmonger urge. (might be even more efective if morale is added)

one of the biggest exploits possible in CIV 1&2, take a horde of diplomats and buy your way through. Cities/tanks/settles whatever, just keep the money rolling

It might be fun for 1 or 2 games, but it shall not be there as default.

I even forgotten, you needed a tech badly, first steal out of the city to get 1 tech, bribe it and you get another one

Why shall a small nation be able to buy off a motley horde? If we are talking about another nation, wouldn't make so much sense for me.

Maybe just me that I never liked the huge exploit in civ..........

[Solver]

Actualy atleast in the Mods it never seemed to bother the AI in terms of keeping up in the tech race - so that function of the Ai's spy wasn't needed if it ever used it in the game?

Yes, but ideally we would all lik to see not spies removed, but an AI that can use them competently to steal your tech .

[child of Thor]

moving slavers might be fun, but they are IMO one of the most unbalancing special units in the game - with them its posible to get massive cities quickly, a huge advantage to the player(and the ingame un-incentives are not tough enough to curb the exploit).

Spies i like having in the field - but i never see(maybe cause their invisible ) the Ai use them?

The Diplomat makes sense to abstract, as we already have the diplomacy screen, it could find a logical home there i guess?

Clerics/franchise/lawyers - i enjoy seeing the little symbols appear next to the enemy cities name when i use them, and their epic journeys in the heart of enemy territory can be fun. Many of the minor special units, the ones that don't get used that often, could remain as units on the map. So i'm leaning towards the thought that if we do decide to abstract any, it should be the most common usage ones and of those the ones that give an unfair advantage to the human player over the Ai.

[Solver]

The diplomat could be abstracted because it's little fun to use. Slavers and Spies, true, are currently a human advantage over the AI pretty much, but taking them out as units would, IMO, remove a good part of the game excitement. I like seeing Slavers move with archer escort, too, there are just those minor things that I love, an extra touch to the game .

[Ekmek]

I can go with abstracting the diplomat (maybe clerics should get the "bribe" ability, or a new special forces nit that makes the bribed units into a guerrilla unit)

But I do think the special units is something that makes CtP2 better than CIv3. and I think it opens up the door for different game paths instead of the Civ3 tech race to tanks. Fighting a shadow/unconventional war of guerrilas, assassination, or terrorism should be an option.

On Slaves. Can anyone familiar with code see if there is a foundation for Civ3-like nationalities through the Slave codes. I know they function as citizens but are identified differently and revolt often. I think it could be the start for a nationality code.

[Ekmek]

This might become a new thread (Unless I missed it), but what have been the discussions for curbing Infinite City Sprawl (ICS) in the Apolyton Edition?

Civ3 tries to with corruption and cultural conversion.

I think CtP2 Cradle used the plagues to limit it.

ICS is another side effect of the Warmonger bias in Civ games. Curbing it can make the game more fun and give other options/paths of game play.

One thought I was throwing around includes using colonies more. Colonies (and Settlements, which could be different) could be the size 0 city like its already been SLIC'd but it cant grow with out a serious investment. I was thinking of something like a city center/govt improvement that is relatively expensive to build and maintain but after its built than the city population can grow.

Colony - built on resources can build Harbor, Airport, militia before City govt. Does not have to be in border radius of empire.
Settlements - has to be connected to previous borders (I guess like Rise Of Nations does it). But can receive slaves but cannot build most city stuff, only militia and city govt initially.

I was tempted to suggest settlers be generated randomly and build settlements to abstract immigration, population movements (basically a settler would be created from cities randomly and go settle on its own, run by the same code as the AI except you'd own the city) This would make it a challenge to deal with growing borders and growing population as opposed to the strict managed civ style of planning your empire.

Although the random growth model is more realistic, more challenging, and would curtail the warmonger since they have to contend with more domestic issues, I expected an uproar so I'm not going to push hard for it.


Finally, Civ3 has resistors when you take an enemy city and different nationalities. I dont remember the resistors being Ctp2. I think having an itially resisting population, partisans (already SLIC'd) and to simulate reconstruction you have to build the city govt improvement I mentioned above to restore order and abstract reconstruction and civil authority efforts. Since the captured city would be bigger than the settlement 0, all of those population above that number are in resistance until city govt is built and then slowly they are quelled by the improvement (and additional bldgs) and by military units (to quel resistance it should be atleast one unit per one pop). this could slow down war mongers as they have to quel resistors, invest in the conquered city, and figh partisans. (again this might be a new thread)