Cradle III...the download

[EPW]

I'm stumped on this one, because in Cradle strategies.txt, all strategies follow the Tyranny/Dynasty/City State path. It was my understanding that AIs will switch as soon as they get access to the higher government type.

I am too. With the AE, I had to uncomment all the unused Governments do to a change in the source, but I left them all below Tyranny, so that they should never get used. The original order is maintained, so something else must have been changed in the source that is prevent some civs from switching out of Tyranny.

Are there any other ideas out there???

I'd like to see an economic victory, but that would probably take too much work for next release.

@the farms vs. pastures. I still don't see the point of making a distinction. Why would you ever build pastures on grassland or farms on plains? What I would like to see is an additional bonus given to farms, so that there is a reason not to terraform my land to plains.

BTW, I'm enjoying the AAR you are playing. I may start a open-ended Succession game myself on the next release.

Thankyou. That's at least one person who is reading it.

[Maquiladora]

Another fix: the "religious objectives" button on the pop up doesn't link to the religious victory page in the GL, but to the conquest victory page IIRC.

[EPW]

and another: HARAPPAN is spelled wrong on line 746 of the traits2 file whenever someone tries to build an elephant warrior.

[Maquiladora]

I got Polytheism in a ruin (and checked it's there in my science manager) but I can still research it...

Edit: Apparently there's two Polytheism's. One for the ADVANCE_RELIGION and one for polytheism itself. What do I do?

[hexagonian]

Fixed for next update...

ADVANCE_RELIGION ''Religion''
ADVANCE_POLYTHEISM ''Polytheism''

[Protra3211]

I was wondering how is the AI in the new version of Cradle when it comes to dealing with diplomacy with human players?
I recall in the last version if you were in a weak postion, AI,s with aggressive personalities would keep a cold war stance with you even with many gifts.
Then without warning would declare war and throw stack after stack of units at you till you were hemed in or beaten.Had to stay alert the whole game for any change.
I recall that your advice was to remove the Frenzy mod as this tends to ramp up the aggessiveness of the AI.Should I do the same for this version or is there any changes in Diplomod?

[hexagonian]

Same as before...

You can go into the following scripts files
CRASL_script.slc
CRASLC_script.slc

change the following line...
#include "CRASL_frenzy.slc"

to...
// #include "CRASL_frenzy.slc"

This will disable Frenzy, which should improve your options for diplomatic relations

[hexagonian]

@the farms vs. pastures. I still don't see the point of making a distinction. Why would you ever build pastures on grassland or farms on plains? What I would like to see is an additional bonus given to farms, so that there is a reason not to terraform my land to plains.

- Farms now limited to Grasslands(+10) and Deserts (+5).
- Pastures limited to Plains, and all Hill types (+10).
...which actually has a degree of logic, since you do have access to the Farmer specialist with Agriculture

I'm starting to merge Cradle to the Apolyton Pack. One thing I do not understand is the change to the userprofile.txt file, since there is no entry called Ruleset=. Am I supposed to add that entry?

Running it through Modswapper seems to work (played 20 turns on a testrun)...what is the disadvantage of using Modswapper now?

[EPW]

- Farms now limited to Grasslands(+10) and Deserts (+5).
- Pastures limited to Plains, and all Hill types (+10).
...which actually has a degree of logic, since you do have access to the Farmer specialist with Agriculture

As for farms having an additional bonus(commerce perhaps?), I won't argue the issue any further other than to say that production is usually more valuable than food.

I'm starting to merge Cradle to the Apolyton Pack. One thing I do not understand is the change to the userprofile.txt file, since there is no entry called Ruleset=. Am I supposed to add that entry?

Yeah, you have to add it yourself.

Running it through Modswapper seems to work (played 20 turns on a testrun)...what is the disadvantage of using Modswapper now?

None, except you have to use Modswrapper. Actually, since there is no interface for the RuleSets that is probably the best option for now.

@At the Apolyton Edition Conversion

I don't know if you are using the patch Maq and I compiled in the other thread, so I'll list the issues we found, and some other gameplay issues I noticed:

-These problems are addressed in the patch:
All governments must be listed for each of the main strategies in the strategy.txt file.
There are a number of slic errors that pop up, especially in the garrison code. We fixed some of these in the patch, though there was at least one Event I had to remove all together.
There are other slic errors that havn't been fixed yet: I've found one when doing the partial upgrades, and another when barbs capture a city.
The goods slic is no longer necessary, Maq provided a new goods.txt in the patch.
Fort healing: There is a new flag called HealRate for tile improvements that needs to be added for all improvements that heal. The healrate of tile improvments on the same tile will add together.
Added in the patch:
-A new strategy called TOO_MANY_CITIES added in the strategy.txt file, to prevent the AI from going overboard in building cities.

Issues not addressed in the patch that I found while playing the game:

The biggest one, by far, is the number garrisoned units in each city, and their effect on production. I'm not sure if this is an issue only with the AE, or if it was present in vanilla also.

Anyways, with the high number of garrisoned units in cradle, cities often have 12 units garrisoned in a single city. This means that any units being built in the city can't be completed until a unit is moved out. In my games, I've found this to be extremely common. Even civs not at war will have full garrisons and not move units out.

If a civ is being attacked the problem is even worse. Often, they will put 12 units in all their cities, and continue to build more units. Their production comes to a stand still and they can never fight off the invaders.

Reducing the garrison levels to the AE defaults helps significantly. In fact, right when I lowered the garrison levels during a game I was playing, the AI started to form more armys in the field and began to attack other civs more effectively. It did not solve the problem with civs that were underattack though, they still put 12 units in every city, and their production halted.

On frenzy

Without frenzy, it fairly easy to get through an entire game without war.
I'm not convinced that frenzy is needed though - perhaps just making the AIs dislike the human player more would be enough.

Thats all I can think of for now. I'll give myself a plug and note that I added a "VictoryEnslavementChance" flag which you may find useful.

[hexagonian]

I'm going to stick with Modswapper then...I prefer the way it works for choosing the type of setup I want to use, rather than manually renaming/switching out files.

I'm using the patch...thanks for clarifying why some of the files are there.

One thing I did notice is that it appears that the Leadership Training is no longer working.

I'm impressed with the play options available in the AE setup...is there any that may conflict with Cradle (like the upgrading/no upgrading...)

I'll look into the garrison setup. Are you referring to the settings in strategies.txt? There are other ways to get a strong garrison in a city.

I'll probably keep Frenzy in...for no other reason than to keep AI pressure on the player.

[Maquiladora]

I'm starting to merge Cradle to the Apolyton Pack. One thing I do not understand is the change to the userprofile.txt file, since there is no entry called Ruleset=. Am I supposed to add that entry?

Besides EPW's suggestion, another option is to delete userprofile.txt (or remove it) then start the game and a new one will be generated with all the new AE entries in it. Of course you'll have to redo all your preferences.

And you don't need to disable debugslic, in fact I recommend you keep it on while testing, then you can find things like Harrapan being spelled wrong.

Running it through Modswapper seems to work (played 20 turns on a testrun)...what is the disadvantage of using Modswapper now?

One disadvantage is that you have to overwrite your original ctp2_data files, and fill your original ctp2_data folder with your Cradle files. Another disadvantage is having another program installed, that's why I prefer using a ruleset folder.

If you release an AE version you can just make Cradle install to a separate "CradleIII" folder next to the player's original ctp2_data, then also include your userprofile.txt with the Cradle zip with the ruleset folder already set.

Just tell the player how to disable and enable Cradle in userprofile.txt, since there is no modswapper.

Another suggestion for the next release:

- Make the tech tree more interesting by removing or changing the techs that don't give anything. (With the next playtest you'll also be able to add optional prerequisites to allow players to travel through the tree more freely).

[Maquiladora]

I'm going to stick with Modswapper then...I prefer the way it works for choosing the type of setup I want to use, rather than manually renaming/switching out files.

Once Cradle is installed to a separate folder all you need to do is change one line in userprofile.

One thing I did notice is that it appears that the Leadership Training is no longer working.

What part is not working?

I'm impressed with the play options available in the AE setup...is there any that may conflict with Cradle (like the upgrading/no upgrading...)

Your units will have no upgrades specified ("UpgradeTo ..." in units.txt) so upgrading either on or off should have no effect. Eventually you could use this feature of AE rather than the slic upgrading. It will be faster at least.

For the others, I'm not sure at the moment. New combat should have no negative effects, me and EPW are using it in our PBEM game.

[hexagonian]

What part is not working?

Before AE, when I pulled up the Army Manager, I would get the Barracks screen. Now I get nothing.

In your game, are you getting the screen?

[Maquiladora]

Before AE, when I pulled up the Army Manager, I would get the Barracks screen. Now I get nothing.

In your game, are you getting the screen?

Yea, works fine in our game.

[hexagonian]

Oops!

This is what happens when I take a three week break from playing...I was hotkeying the Army Manager last night.

Leadership only shows up on the control panel button.

disregard my last post...