4 Player MP Game - Maq, EPW, Toni, Barley.

[Toni]

hmmm not sure, though it was 8:30gmt lol ok i will be on the look out from 7:30gmt. Even better if we can start 7:30gmt more game time. i will be online from 7:30gmt.

[Maquiladora]

I dunno Barley said 8:30pm UK time in the chat, although we don't know yet whether he meant UK time as in his house which is always GMT or real UK time which is GMT+1 at the moment.

Ill be there for 7:30pm GMT anyway just in case.

[Toni]

Epw is online but away, so i left him a message if he can be around 8gmt online. Ok i will be here from 7:45gmt just need to get some lunch brb

[Toni]

Sorry that i had to leave so fast yesterday guys. Ok so you know i can play this coming Friday, Sat and Sun. Any time will be good for me.

By the way great game there guys. Maq, Barley you are doing great, i like your strategy. Please don't kill Epw

See you guys

[Maquiladora]

I can play this fri/sat/sun anytime, just let us know what time ASAP.

Yeah the game looks good so far.

Since it looks like we might finish the game (in one way or another) in the next 3 or 4hr session, maybe we should think about making some other changes before the next game?

Only like make Machine Gunner stronger or Tanks weaker or more expensive. What do you all think?

[EPW]

jungles/forest needs to be changed, maybe increase value of commernce tile improvements since barley cant use scientists.

Possiblly make all flankers more expensive, either to build or support, or just make them weaker.

Friday at 11:30 gmt is the earliest I can play.

[Toni]

Ok i'm good for Friday 11:30 gmt, hope you British folks can stay till late Can we try gettting a game as well on Sat and Sun, so we have more time to kick eachother buts. Hope Epw you can start earlier then.

Yea Maq you are right, we should adjust somethings, make game more balanced, as Epw said maybe add more commerce to jungle desert and forest, make them deserable. Also maybe add more defence to forts, weaker units, hmmm things like that.

I say lets try organizing a wish list maybe, with things to change, so maybe we can start the 3rd game with them.

I think the 2nd game will be decided on Friday, and we can get the 3rd rolling with the new staff.

Let me see what you guys think about it, everyone try sharing what he wants, so we can finalize it maybe say Thursday so Maq can do the mod.

[Maquiladora]

Here’s a post I made in the source code forum.

Originally posted by Maquiladora
But for now we can say these would be good changes to terrain.txt, adding in all changes from SAP2 apart from base beaches and shallow/deep water tiles have at least 5 production instead:

Food/Production/Commerce
Was > Is now
Add time/cost/advance = turns/pw cost/advance required to add this terrain
Remove time/cost/advance = turns/pw cost/advance required to remove this terrain

River
+5/+5/+5 > +5/+0/+5

Forest
Add advance agri. rev. > toolmaking
Add cost 800 > 200
Remove advance agri. rev. > toolmaking
Remove time 1 > 3
10/5/10 > 5/15/5

Plains
Add time 1 > 5

Tundra
Remove time 2 > 5
0/5/0 > 5/5/0

Glacier
Add advance adv. composites > gaia theory
Remove advance adv. composites > gaia theory
Remove time 5 > 10

Grassland
Add advance toolmaking > agriculture
Add time 1 > 5
Remove advance toolmaking > agriculture

Desert
Add advance agri. rev > conservation
Remove advance agri. rev > conservation
Remove time 1 > 7
Remove cost 400 > 800
0/0/5 > 0/10/5

Swamp
Remove time 1 > 5
Remove cost 400 > 800

Jungle
Add advance agri. rev. > indus. rev
Remove advance agri. rev. > toolmaking
Remove time 1 > 3
Remove cost 200 > 400
5/10/5 > 10/10/5

Mountain
Add time 5 > 10
Remove time 5 > 10
0/15/10 > 0/15/5

Hill
Add time 2 > 10
Remove time 3 > 10
Remove cost 600 > 1000
5/10/10 > 5/10/5

Shallow Water
10/10/5 > 10/5/10

Deep Water
10/10/5 > 10/5/10

Submarine Volcano
0/25/15 > 10/20/10

Beach
10/10/10 > 10/5/10

Continental Shelf
5/10/5 > 10/5/10

Sand Dunes
Add time 2 > 10
Remove time 3 > 10
Remove cost 600 > 1000
Movement 2 > 3

Desert Mountain
Add time 5 > 10
Remove time 5 > 10
0/10/10 > 0/15/5

Polar Hill
Add time 2 > 10
Remove time 3 > 10
Remove cost 600 > 1000
0/5/5 > 0/10/5
Movement 2 > 3

Polar Mountain
Add time 5 > 10
Remove time 5 > 10
0/10/5 > 0/15/5

Kelp Bed
15/10/5 > 15/5/10

Coral Reef
10/15/5 > 10/10/10

To add another point into the discussion, what about defence values? I have always thought they are too low and only have any significant effect on mountains +100% defence. I suggested doubling them all because combat uses attack and defence for both the attacker and the defending unit each round for units on the front line, so defence is only half of the important stats, whereas in civ2 a defending unit only uses its defence stat in a battle, and yet most of civ2 terrain defence modifiers are the same and sometimes even higher then CtP2 values.

I would also make fortifying a unit +100% defence not 50…

That includes double defence bonus for forts to 100% too but I would still make them even higher as Toni said to +200% defence.

For units, I suggest we only change the units we don’t use at all or not very often, like Machine Gunner, Battleship, Destroyer, Cargo Helicopter (change it to Transport Plane), Hover Infantry, Interceptor, Leviathan, Marine, Paratrooper, Mobile SAM, etc. All the other units that currently have some use should be left as they are IMO, until we fix these useless ones.

[Toni]

From the read above we continue at 11:30gmt on Friday.

Barley you ok with that time?

[Barley]

Fine for 11.30. A bit late but ill work around it. May have an nap early evening so im no so tired. I hope to be able to play until 5-6am so that should give us nearly 6 hours.

Cannot play Saturday (err well I can until 6pm GMT but since that’s very early morning for you guys I guess that’s a no go. Can continue on Sunday any time after 5pm GMT until around 2am.

Re the changes, sounds like a good idea, can you explain what you mean i.e.

Forest
Add advance agri. rev. > toolmaking
Add cost 800 > 200
Remove advance agri. rev. > toolmaking
Remove time 1 > 3
10/5/10 > 5/15/5


Im not clear on the referenced to advances, add cost, or remove time.

[Maquiladora]

Nice to here from you Barley

For each terraforming act (removing and adding) you need to have discovered a certain advance, as you know. Well the change with the > means it used to require agricultural revolution but is now > toolmaking.

For the cost there is a remove and add cost.

In the default game it costs 220pw to terraform grassland to plains, so thats,

Grassland
remove cost 20

and

Plains
add cost 200

Remove time is how many turns the terraforming act takes to complete to get rid of the specified terrain.

[Toni]

Ok so we are all good to go for Friday 11:30gmt, see you all on the icq.

[Maquiladora]

Good.

So what about these changes to terrain for the next match? I want to know before we start the next game.

I won't change anything anyones unhappy with, although I must say these are more fair than the original terrain Maybe we need more time deciding which units to change before the next game, so maybe can leave those out at least for one game.

[Toni]

Maybe the best time for us to decide this issue with changing sets will be tomorrow while we are playing.

See you guys tomorrow

[EPW]

Ugh sorry I can't make it tommorow until 1:30 GMT. Maybe earlier but not sure Hope you guys can make it at that time...