CtP2 vs. Civ 3 - a guide

[Solver]

Yes, but in my definition, games such as quake are much more mainstream.

Though I must say I am glad that a civ title is getting good sales. Civ 3, with all of its shortcomings, is still a very good game. After all, we all want to see the civ genre developing, and good sales are the key for that.

[Locutus]

I believe Civ3 vanilla version alone sold 2+ million copies. If that's not mainstream, I don't know what is...

[Solver]

It is a mainstream variation of a non-mainstream game. I repeat, a game strategic to such a high elements does not appeal to just every player who wants to shoot anything that moves. However, there are obviously enough people who like Civ the way it is, an intellectual game, which made the game absolutely famous - and not only that. Civ 3 was, of course, slightly simplified in order to appear more to the mainstream or the average gamer.

[SMIFFGIG]

Civ3 quite certianly is, and is aimed at the mainstream market, there is no doubt about it

This IMO results in one of the reasons it is generally such a poor Civ game and game in general (unlike its predocessors) which where NOT mainstream orientated

[Solver]

Updated: added the city economics differences (Civ 3 fixed big X vs. CtP2 economic radius) and specialists. Three screens as well .

[TheArsenal]

I know nothing about games sales. What do those 6 months translate to in units sold?

[Jon Shafer]

Games (especially sequals) that aren't mainstream don't start and stay on the top 10 selling list for 6 months.

[Solver]

I beg to differ. Civ, per se, isn't a mainstream game. Counterstrike is, Warcraft is, but Civ is a game designed for the other sort of gamers. Yes, it sells very well and many buy it, but only a very small fraction become players as hardcore as we do.

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Solver
Hmm, strange I posted that. I certainly know that terrain and some other graphics can and has been modified... uhmm! Though well, CtP2 makes any modding easier . One can even change the interface elements at wish...

No question there.

I wish Civ 3 (and Firaxis) had a more mod-friendly attitude, but Civ is designed for the mainstream, so there's not much anyone can do about that.

[Solver]

Hmm, strange I posted that. I certainly know that terrain and some other graphics can and has been modified... uhmm! Though well, CtP2 makes any modding easier . One can even change the interface elements at wish...

[Jon Shafer]

Good read.

Though I'll have to agree with Arrian in that the Civ 3 AI is not keen on most military matters. Naval invasions are definitely not its strong point and I've only seen it use bombardment units (1 unit by itself) offensively 2 or 3 times in three years of playing Civ 3 on a regular basis.

Also, your statement about not being able to mod Civ 3's graphics is also false. I've modded just about everything possible in my game, from terrain to units to resources to the interface and more.

PW rocks!

[Solver]

Yes, in MedMod, there are various unique units. It is, in fact, possible to mod in civ-specific units and abilities in CtP2, and has been done in some mods.

I was aware of the source code project but when I visited the forums there was no thread (that I could see) that nicely summarises the current position of the project, and there was nowhere (that I could see) where you could download the latest ‘source code project patch’.

So I stuck with Civ3.

How far advanced is the source code project? Has it introduced anything new or only fixed bugs? Is there somewhere where I can download one convenient patch that includes all the recommended mods (cradle etc) and the latest source code project changes?

The project has currently fixed the major bugs for singeplayer, and all mods work under it now. There are no new feautures per se, but that's work that's handled excellently in mods such as Cradle or MedMod.

Here are some links you may want to check out:

Playest thread - this is te playest thread, where the latest playtest build is posted regularly. This is the current build.

The Directory - this is where you can get MedMod, Cradle, Modswapper and others, whichever you please.

Another thread with nice links and comments on the mods.

Unfortunately, the multiplayer aspect still isn't working as well as we would like it to, but you can definitely have a good go in single player!

[hexagonian]

I believe WesW added civ-specific unique units in his Med Mod - and there are also unique units available to the player that are related to government choices in the unmodded game (For instance, choose Fascism and you get access to the Fascist unit, choose Theocracy and you get the Cleric - and this is usually expanded upon in all of the Mods)

In terms of gameplay, this is not much different than civ-specific units.

[bartdanr]

Thanks for the guide, Solver.

I didn't notice a discussion on Unique Units, but correct me if I'm wrong: wouldn't it be possible to mod such a feature in CTP2?

[Andydog]

A most interesting thread Solver.

I started off with Civ2, then went onto the CtP series for a short while – I stopped playing that because of the bugs and bad AI. I also really enjoy multiplayer and CtP2 was so buggy it was pretty much impossible.

One thing you didn’t mention was that the civilisations in Civ3 each have two attributes – the attributes being Commercial (income bonuses), Seafaring (sea bonuses), Militaristic (combat bonuses), industrious (worker and production bonuses), religious (culture bonuses), expansionist (exploration bonuses), agricultural (growth bonuses), and scientific (research bonuses). Each civilisation also gets a unique unit that is more powerful than their standard equivalent (for example, the Romans, being a commercial militaristic civ, get Legionnaires instead of swordsmen, Legionaries having extra defence. When a unique unit is victorious in battle, your civ enters into a Golden Age, where your production and gold are greatly increased for 20 turns.

These additions add a new strategic dimension to the game that I really like, certainly it’s a major difference to CtP and worthy of mentioning.

Having said that, I do agree that stacked combat is VASTLY superior to Civ3’s combat system, and I much preferred the public works system to pissing about with workers. Yes workers are fun in the very early game, but they quickly become a pain in the arse. A game should never be tedious, and unfortunately there is too much of this in Civ3.

I was aware of the source code project but when I visited the forums there was no thread (that I could see) that nicely summarises the current position of the project, and there was nowhere (that I could see) where you could download the latest ‘source code project patch’.

So I stuck with Civ3.

How far advanced is the source code project? Has it introduced anything new or only fixed bugs? Is there somewhere where I can download one convenient patch that includes all the recommended mods (cradle etc) and the latest source code project changes?

If there is, and it’s all nice and simple, then I’ll definitely give CtP another go!