World War II Scenario: anyone interested, or any suggestions/comments?

[Nordicus]

WesW:
Yup, did that. The message I keep getting says: "COULD NOT FIND TEXT FOR ID SHALLOW"--i.e. WATER_SHALLOW 'Shallow Water'--"gl_str.txt line 402: ERROR" but when I switched that line (in the gl_str, the TERRAIN_WATER_SHALLOW) with one of my terrains (TERRAIN_WATER_ICE "Polar Ocean"), I get this message: "COULD NOT"--blah, blah--"FOR ID POLAR gl_str.txt line 402: ERROR." So it has something to do with...uh, something(;p). Interesting how it's using the quoted name for reference ("Polar..." and "Shallow..."). I double-and-triple-checked all of the text files; there is nothing wrong. I don't understand it. Maybe I tried to do too much all at once. I think I'll take it all out and start over, one at a time. Any suggestions (from anyone) would be just priceless.

Anywho, I finished your files (gl_str, Improve, and improveicon), but haven't had time for the icon itself. All you want is the existing City Wall icon turned brown? Okay. And in the Improve file, I gave your Stockade improvement the following (which can be changed if you no like):

cost 250
upkeep 2
defend. 20
prev. convrs. 30
enb. advnc. NULL
obs. advnc. STONE_WORKING

Seemed logical at the time, but like I said, you can change this if you want. (I assumed you wanted it as an earlier version of city walls, so the obsolete advance is Stone Working, when one can build walls.)

Oh, BTW, to include the oil good in the tundra terrain, go to 'goods,' then TERRAIN_TUNDRA_GOOD_ONE...at the end of that (before TERRAIN_GRASSLAND...of course), type:

# Oil2
TERRAIN_TUNDRA_GOOD_TWO {
GOOD_SOUND_ID SOUND_ID_OIL
GOOD_GOLD_VALUE 30
}

Note: the gold value would be whatever it is in your game--in mine it's 30 (see DESERT if unsure). In the 'goodsID' file, you'll find an opening for TERRAIN_TUNDRA_GOOD_TWO...replace the '0' with '3' for Oil, and (optional) replace '????' with the word 'Oil' after the #. (The number at the top of the page is already set for the maximum number of goods--no need to change it.)

In the 'terrain' file, find TERRAIN_TUNDRA, then go to the end, past 'GOOD1' stuff. Inbetween the two '}' before ### TERRAIN DONE ###, type:


GOOD2 {

GOOD_INDEX 5
PROBABILITY 0.5
GOOD_CAN_DIE
ENV_BASE {
ENV_SCORE 326 }
TRANSFORM_REMOVE 1 400
TRANSFORM_ADD 1 1600
TRANSFORM_ADD_ADVANCE ADVANCE_AGRICULT- URAL_REVOLUTION
TRANSFORM_REMOVE_ADVANCE ADVANCE_AGRICUL-
TURAL_REVOLUTION
}

}

### TERRAIN DONE ###

And then in the beloved gl_str, find TERRAIN_TUNDRA_GOOD_ONE, after it type: TERRAIN_TUNDRA_GOOD_TWO "Oil" ...and that should do it. I'd be more than happy to send you a copy of my files, but they're pretty f**ked up right now, and I would not want your game to crash like mine does, so the above should get it done.

If this doesn't work, just lemme know.
Gotta get going...later.

N.

[Nordicus]

Harlan:
The graphics lead sounds promising. Whatever saves time and effort--and having 5 faces would be preferable. I'd like to see a sample. I agree that a lot of CTP units have that "steroid-overdose" look about them, but not all are so bad. But if you're sure about this lead, okay, we'll let the goons be.

I may have to look this up, but if memory serves, the SS (or Shultzstaffel) and Stormtroopers were not the same entity: the Stormtroopers (either a wing of the SA or were the SA, can't recall), were the Nazis' goon squad, militia (I had envisioned these having light infantry as well as slaver qualities); and the SS was a division of the Nazi intelligence apparatus, semi-military and more akin to CTP's Spy unit. I may be in error, but there clearly is a distinction between the two--and I think both ought to be included, having historical validity in such a scenario. If you want to be totally true to history, then the Stormtroopers should become obsolete quite early in the scenario, since the SA was pretty much disbanded by Hitler (if memory serves), and then the SS grew to dominate. So, how true to history are we gonna get or how much within the confines of the game can we get?
You are correct about the KGB unit: it should be termed "Commisar." (I envisioned it as a Russian/Soviet unit for multiple scenarios.) I think it was around 1946 (?) when that title changed. Not sure, but good point.

Why the heck don't mines work??? That's just silly! Geez, that takes a huge dimension away from both ground and naval warfare. Troops and ships will be cruising everywhere (like they do now) without a care! Just imagine it! O the horror! The madness that shall ensue!
Seriously, though, that really blows. There has to be a workaround for that one.
No, I agree, a settler/engineer unit would only complicate things, but in terms of a more extensive scenario, it'd be nice to be able to build a city at a strategic point (esp. since there are no canals for naval units), or use it as a canal (in CivII, having a city in the Suez area was very necessary if one's European country wished to have access to the Indian Ocean, let alone the Pacific; and Panama, of course, a huge time-saver). But not for this scenario.

Ah, that's the question! How to get CTP to recognize new terrain....Still working on that one (see above). I felt that someone had to try--I couldn't stand the unrealistic look of the game or the oversimplified terrains currently available. I mean, it'll do, but it's so sad-looking. There's more than two kinds of bloody forests in the world!!! Ah....It's been frustrating...perhaps, if my next try fails, I'll give your goods icon suggestion a try. However, the terrains would not have the values of default terrain, but whatcha gonna do? If THAT doesn't work, I guess we're stuck until something comes out.

Yeah, bauxite could be easily done. I didn't know you were such a bauxite fan
What about rubber? I was thinking of it, but I thought: "Nah."

Going to go try once more. Speak later.

N.

[Paul]

Nordicus, I don't know exactly what's wrong with your text files for your new terrains. Maybe if you mail them to me I could take a look at them and figure out what is causing your problems.

[Nordicus]

Paul:
Neither do I!
You betcha, the files are on their way. Thanks immensely for having a look. If you see anything abnormal, have questions, or find something I screwed up on, hey, lemme know (post or email--nordicus@home.com). That would be great, wonderful, super....

Talk later, and thanks again.

N.

[Nordicus]

WesW:
Hey, you!
I was just cleaning up my files, to see if everything was okay to go ahead with your icon and then test it...and I came across the "Medieval Mod 1.2," and thought I'd check it out. To my surprise, I found that your Stockade text files were already done and there's an icon for it. (???) I don't understand. I'm looking at it right now: it has pointed sticks and looks how you initially described what you needed. Why do you need another one? Perhaps I've missed something.
Nevertheless, I am confused. If you could explain, I would be grateful and then, of course, no longer confused.
Thanks.

N.

[WesW]

Nordicus, I may have found your problem. Those error messages seemed awfully familiar to me, so I looked in the help_str and script txt files. I didn't find anything in the help str, but in the script text there is a text block for the terrain types. Search for deserts, it's the first one.

Also, in my terrain mod, I gave swamps the values of grassland, in an effort to do away with this over-used terrain type. If you know of a way to use the grassland's pics for the swamp's in the game, so that the swamps look like grassland, too, I would be very grateful.

[Paul]

Nordicus, your error message was because there was no " after savannah in gl_str.txt. After I fixed that I got a "could not find CONCEPT_SAPPHIRES in string database" meaning that CONCEPT_SAPPHIRES is not in gl_str.txt and after that I got a message saying that there must be 24 terrains in terrain.txt. This probably means that the game can't handle more than 24 terrain types.

[Nordicus]

Paul:
Hey, thank you for looking over them anyway, really appreciate that. I suppose all that's left is to try Harlan's workaround suggestion, unless anyone can figure out how to make CTP recognize additional terrains, since it's pretty unlikely that simply changing the number at the top of terrains to 24 would trick the game I'll try replacement first.

Thanks again--saved me a migraine.

N.

[Nordicus]

WesW!
Hey!
Firstly: see my post right above yours please, you may have missed it.
And secondly, thank you for the suggestion, but I'm VERY confused now--to which "script text" file are you refering??? I checked script.slc and looked very hard and then did a search for "desert" and "terrain" and found nothing. I don't know what you're talking about! Please explain! ????????????
Thanks.

N.

[Nordicus]

WesW:
Uh...I apologize for the "Secondly" part in my previous post. I just discovered what you were talking about. This is how: I entered a scenario and the following PowerSLICS Errors appeared:

STRING ID 'CONTROL_PANEL_WINDOW_TERRA_SWITCHES_DESERTS' COULD NOT FIND DESERTS

And then I received repeated messages like that but ending in:
COULD NOT FIND FORESTS
(and) COULD NOT FIND GRASSLAND
(and) COULD NOT FIND HILLS
... RAINFOREST
... ALPINE
... SAVANNAH
... SWAMPS
... GLACIERS
(and finally) TUNDRA

These are DEFAULT terrains. Not mine: I took everything out. Every default text file was restored. That doesn't matter!! This is a SCENARIO! My files were not in any scenarios. I just don't get it. It must be a problem with PowerSLICS...has anyone had this trouble? Why are they errors regarding terrain??? (When I continued with the game, there was NO terrain whatsoever! The world was black and void!) It's a conspiracy!!
Oh I am ready to f**king scream!

Gonna count to ten, not drive my head through the monitor...calm-blue-ocean...calm-blue-ocean..........................

[WesW]

Nordicus, here is the text block. It's from the powerslic 2 that came with the Ap Pack.

//New Help added 7-2-99
helpbox 'ControlPanelWindow.TerraSwitches.Deserts' { Text(ID_CONTROLPANELWINDOW_TERRASWITCHES_DESERTS); }
helpbox 'ControlPanelWindow.TerraSwitches.Forests' { Text(ID_CONTROLPANELWINDOW_TERRASWITCHES_FORESTS); }
helpbox 'ControlPanelWindow.TerraSwitches.Grassland' { Text(ID_CONTROLPANELWINDOW_TERRASWITCHES_GRASSLAND );}
helpbox 'ControlPanelWindow.TerraSwitches.Hills' { Text(ID_CONTROLPANELWINDOW_TERRASWITCHES_HILLS);}
helpbox 'ControlPanelWindow.TerraSwitches.RainForest' { Text(ID_CONTROLPANELWINDOW_TERRASWITCHES_RAINFORES T);}
helpbox 'ControlPanelWindow.TerraSwitches.Alpine' { Text(ID_CONTROLPANELWINDOW_TERRASWITCHES_ALPINE);}
helpbox 'ControlPanelWindow.TerraSwitches.Savannah' { Text(ID_CONTROLPANELWINDOW_TERRASWITCHES_SAVANNAH) ;}
helpbox 'ControlPanelWindow.TerraSwitches.Swamps' { Text(ID_CONTROLPANELWINDOW_TERRASWITCHES_SWAMPS);}
helpbox 'ControlPanelWindow.TerraSwitches.Tundra' { Text(ID_CONTROLPANELWINDOW_TERRASWITCHES_TUNDRA);}
helpbox 'ControlPanelWindow.TerraSwitches.Glaciers' { Text(ID_CONTROLPANELWINDOW_TERRASWITCHES_GLACIERS) ;}

I don't know if it was added in the 2nd patch, or if it is a part of PowerSlics.

You might try substituting new terrain types for some of the water ones, but I have no idea if it would work or not. If you run into many more problems with it, I would suggest abandoning it and moving on to something more enjoyable.

About adding oil to the tundra terrain, the only glitch was that I had to place the new text block as the list item in the goods.txt. It messed up the help info you received when you rt.-clicked over the terrain. I don't know why it did this, or why moving it to the end fixed it, but that's CTP for you.

About the stockade, here is the text block I made for it for the improve.txt

IMPROVE_STOCKADE {
IMPROVEMENT_PRODUCTION_COST 200
IMPROVEMENT_UPKEEP 1
IMPROVE_DEFAULT_ICON ICON_IMPROVE_STOCKADE
IMPROVE_DESCRIPTION DESCRIPTION_IMPROVE_CITY_WALLS
ENABLING_ADVANCE ADVANCE_STONE_WORKING
OBSOLETE_ADVANCE NULL
### FLAGS HERE
CITY_WALLS
IMPROVEMENT_FLAG_DEFENDERS_BONUS 10
IMPROVEMENT_FLAG_PREVENT_SLAVERY
IMPROVEMENT_FLAG_CANT_BUILD_IN_SPACE
IMPROVEMENT_FLAG_CANT_BUILD_IN_SEA
}

### BUILDING DONE ###

This line had to be kept the same as it was for the city walls, or I got crashes;
IMPROVE_DESCRIPTION DESCRIPTION_IMPROVE_CITY_WALLS
What I was asking for was a variation of what you see on the terrain map- the white wall surrounding the city. I think this would be considered a sprite, but city walls insn't found in any of the -id.txts, so I don't know how to make and use it.
I probably spent 40 to 50 hrs. trying to figure this out when I was first putting together the Medieval Mod. If you think you know what to do, I would really appreciate it, but if you don't, it's not crucial to the mod or anything.

[gemini]

Hey Nordicus, Not sure if using the original graphics for units would be worth it cos as harlan said they kinda look like they are on steroids or something.

I was doing some thinking about other resources we could use for the people units(sounds like soldiers at war deals with the western front and I am looking for some japanese soldiers and other odds and ends like that) and couldn't think of a thing.

Do you know of any other games where we could liberate the graphics.

I like the idea of sa and ss units. I also had that same idea of giving them some sort of slavery option too.

Anyway I'll talk to you later.

------------------
Gemini

[Nordicus]

WesW:

Thanks, yes, I finally found that block (and sorry for being so rude yesterday--it was an all-round crappy day). Hey, I will try that suggestion (i.e. the water terrain). As for abandoning the whole idea...never.( You hear me, CTP? NEVER! NEVVVEERRRR!!!)
Actually, I'm trying Harlan's workaround idea now since it is utterly impossible to get CTP to recognize more than 24 terrains (the infamous 'MUST BE 24 TERRAINS DEFINED' error message). I tried replacing just one, keeping the number to 24: nope...didn't change anything. It was ignored, the default one used.
Tried making a new text file ("terrainb.txt") with my additional terrains in it and have CTP import it: nope

(got an error message thus: 'terrainb.txt line 3 error FIRST FRAME FILENAME EXPECTED,' whatever the heck that means).

Now I'm trying to use the new terrains as goods' icons, but no luck yet...this game won't give me a break and it is sooo stubborn & inflexible! When trying to make a second good for Forest, the WEIRDEST thing happened: the game didn't crash; instead, I got half a screen, some psychedelic pink color (???), and although unable to proceed, I was able to manage to find the 'Quit' button and hit it to get the heck outta there. Imagine that! At first I thought 'LSD flashback,' but I've never taken LSD unfortunately, so that can't be it. I then thought 'hallucination,' but another person witnessed this, so I'm not insane. Don't know. I'm now trying to simply replace an existing goods' icon. I expect I'll start a new thread on this subject to attempt to get more ideas. There HAS to be a way around this rigid setup.

I'm so happy something I conceived worked! The tundra-oil goods thing --the damage done to my self esteem may not be irreparable....What was that about moving it to end helping? You had to "place the new text block as the list item in the good.txt." What do you mean when you say "...or why moving it to the end fixed it..."? Moving that new text block? The end of what? Please explain this in detail, cuz it may relate to some of my problems.

The new stockade thing--yeah, I get what your saying. So you don't need an 'icon,' you need a graphic for the map screen, to show it as something different surrounding a city than city walls. One question though: if you want it as an earlier version of city walls, why do you have it available the same time (i.e. Stone Working) as city walls? I assumed you wanted it BEFORE one could build real walls around one's city. You don't need to have Stone Working to have pointed sticks around the city, eh? That's why I had the enabling advance as "null," yunno, to give a player the ability to have it until he/she is able to build city walls (obsolete advance "Stone Working")? Just a thought.

Inbetween working on this terrain/goods thing and slamming my head into my desk, I'll see about trying to make that (Stockade's map icon) work...I'll think more about that later.

Talk to you at another time.

N.

[WesW]

Here is an exert from your instructions:

Oh, BTW, to include the oil good in the tundra terrain, go to 'goods,' then TERRAIN_TUNDRA_GOOD_ONE...at the end of that (before TERRAIN_GRASSLAND...of course), type:

# Oil2
TERRAIN_TUNDRA_GOOD_TWO {
GOOD_SOUND_ID SOUND_ID_OIL
GOOD_GOLD_VALUE 30
}

I had to move this text block to the end of the goods file. Inserting it into the middle of the file threw everything after it out of line as far as the rt.-click help info went. (I would click on the tundra oil and it gave the stats of the first grassland's resource).

This may well be the same type of problem you are having with the terrain types. (The computer is hardcoded to read things in a certain order, and affecting that order in any way messes it up).

I have the Stockade available with Stone Working, and City Walls with Engineering. Why is in the Mod scenario file. Everything works fine, except that you can't tell by looking at it if it is the Stockade or the Walls.

Btw, did you notice my request in the AI diplomacy thread? Oh, and if yesterday was you being rude, you must be one extremely polite young man.

[Nordicus]

Gemini, g'day...
Yes, I'm not into the 'steroid'-look either, esp. for Japanese units in a full WWII campaign--how realistic would that be!? Arnie Yamashiro?!?! Not happening.
If I have time, I'll try looking around later for material to be used in this way. The only games I have are Quake 2, NHL 99, F22 Lightning II, Mech 3, Half Life, and Aliens vs Predator. I doubt that any of these could provide much of anything--I've already been through them and found no format transferable to CTP, so it would be either screenshots or nothing. Oh, I have the orginal Panzer General, but the graphics aren't spectacular (to be kind), and we have plenty of tanks.

Has Harlan showed you any of the terrains or goods I've made? If not, I could send you them. Also, could send me a sample of what you've done so far? I haven't seen anything of yours yet.

I've received your emails and agree with your unit choices, as well as Harlan's. Pity about the CTP-mine thing; I would have loved to see mines available. What do you think of a 'Medic' unit?--having the ability to refill another unit's health?

Anyway, gotta go, but if I have time I'll poke around later for further material. Oh yeah--if you (or anyone) have any graphics or pictures that can be used be used for making such goods as rice, olives (foliage), tobacco leaves, corn, spice (what kind?...dunno, any kind),or anything else, please send them to me. I refuse to make anything further from scratch, so if someone wants a good included, send a pic or graphic! Have no time to look for these. So if you or anyone has something lying around, feel free... (nordicus@home.com).

So, talk to ya later.

N.