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  • AI & Diplomacy stuff...

    Hi Nordicus! Sorry I haven't had time to try your files yet, but I will do so soon. Anyhow, for suggestions for diplomacy - For a start the typos as outlined in the outher thread need correcting. I've been working on alliances, since as is an alliance makes no difference to diplomacy, other than removing hatred over incursions. Easier tech & map trading should be included in this, I think.

    Other random thoughts -

    It would be nice if the AI could judge the magnitude of a gift you give, rather than just giving away space flight because you gave 100 gold.
    The AI should try for exchanges more in general, it would be better to exchange its' techs than gift them (or gold, for that matter).
    The runaway effects need to be decreased - you can really only have people loving or hating you by mid-game, which is annoying.
    Establish Embassy priority needs upping, the AI only does it when it can't do anything else.
    The AI should not refuse a peace treaty but be willing to give you 500 gold to make peace.
    It needs to know whether you are beating it or it is beating you, not just whether you are more powerful, when it responds/offers.
    If a neighbour has the Wormhole tech, the 'steal tech' priority needs to go through the roof. If the neighbour is ahead then it needs to be higher. The AI will always try to incite revolt before it will steal tech. And it doesn't build enough spies anyway (maybe this doesn't come under diplomacy, but people seem to expect fewer franchises etc., so call it your own )
    I'd like to see the big (top 2-3) civs picking on the littlest civ if they refuse any demands. Oh, and also becoming really demanding. That would make Deity really fun!
    The AI needs to be able to respond better to aggression. Currently it will hate you if you use special attacks, but unless you are unlucky when it next randomly picks someone to fight, it won't do a damn thing about it. It should have a stepped response - maybe loading an aip which causes more special attacks if you do a little unconning, going to a cold war if you do a lot, and trying to wipe you out if you are really nasty.
    It shouldn't just pick someone to fight at random! It should have some method to its' madness.

    Can't think of anything else right now, but I'm sure people can come up with lots more

  • #2
    AI & Diplomacy stuff...

    Any suggestions for AI improvements and general diplomacy improvements, please post here. (Or if you just have something that picks your butt, g'head.)
    Any new suggestions might have to wait until the next version (1.3 Diplomacy AIPs) or the next version of our (Wes and I) combined files (probably called Awesome Aips), but don't let that stop ya.
    Tank ya.


    N.

    [This message has been edited by Nordicus (edited November 01, 1999).]
    Existence is Futile.

    Comment


    • #3
      Nordicus, isn't Wes W working on something similar? You might want to work with him, if you're trying to accomplish the same ends.

      I don't know if you can do this with the tools Activision provided, but being able to exchange/demand/give cities/units/tech would be wonderful!!

      Big Dave
      Any flames in this message are solely in the mind of the reader.

      Comment


      • #4
        Simpson:
        Hey! Yeah, tanks fer the suggestions--got em noted. Very good ones--I trust you got the files alright?
        Later!

        Big Dave:
        Yeah, Wes and I have recently joined forces on this matter.
        I've looked into the whole exchanging/demanding/offering cities thing, actually, and it doesn't look doable--I mean, there's text blocks (outcommented) for, I think, all of it, but when one (like me) tries to in-comment it, everything goes wonky! Crash, ping, whump! I think they (the evil one, begins with an "A") had this as a feature originally but cut it at some point. Wonder why....................? Don't know if there's message boxes/buttons text for it either, haven't checked that.

        I think it would be cool (and reasonable) also to be able to demand an AI civ's city, or offer a unit to an ally. CivII (at least on Playstation) had all sorts of dimplomatic dimensions...I don't get it. But I shall endeavor to continue tinkering and tampering until the AI appears to have (& use) a brain.
        (Wes does most of the work, though )
        Tanks fer the suggestions anyway.



        [This message has been edited by Nordicus (edited October 25, 1999).]
        Existence is Futile.

        Comment


        • #5
          Nordicus,

          What did you put in those files you sent me?

          After I installed your files (including the 16-civ super map), I started a chieftain game to get a feel for it and got killed. I immediately got attacked by 4 other civs. I would build 3 cities and they would wipe out 2 of them. I would get 3 more built and they would wipe 2 of them out again. I finally gave up and started a new game which is going much better.

          Everything seems to be working pretty much as expected as far as I can tell but I have not got much play time in yet. I like the new dialog which I have encountered so far. One problem did pop up but I don't know if it is related to your files. I had a dialog box pop up about a city and instead of using the city name it refered to [city.state] (something like that). This is what happens when you don't have 'Debug SLIC=Yes' in your userprofile but it is in mine. After I get this figured out I will get back to playing so I can get you some feedback.

          FYI: After I unzipped the files I had to create a Gamedata dir under the English dir and move the files from the English dir to the Gamedata dir. Don't know what I did here to cause that or if this is whats causing my problem but I will let you know.

          Skorpion59
          Don,
          CtPMaps (Hosted by Apolyton)

          Comment


          • #6
            Skorpion59:

            Howdy!
            Yes, I have had to change my general strategy a bit also. I'm not sure whose files do exactly what (Wes's most likely contribute to the aggression, I'm sure, while mine have more of an effect on diplomactic situations--like I was telling Wes, I can't treat AI civs the same way: some respect must be given, cuz that AI can get pretty pissed if you provoke it!), I just know they work well together.

            (Holy Snot! You got attacked by 4 different civs on Chieftain?? That's nasty! What did you do??--insult or provoke them at all? Like demanding things repeatedly? I'm interested to know the circumstances around that, why that happened. To compare notes. I took a pretty hard beating the first time on Prince, mostly because of insults to the Vikings (I kept demanding 5,000 gold, nine times total, just to see what they'd do)--they conquered nearly half my country before I could fight back and get another civ involved, and so had to be much more careful.)


            I found that I have had to 'kiss-butt' more than usual (and more than I'd like to).
            Try to get and keep alliances going, esp. regarding attacking a third civ, a 'common' enemy--I've seen some improvement here, but I'd like to be sure if it's not just my imagination And more work is needed.
            Anyway, yeah, I just emailed Wes a while ago about this PowerSLIC thing----I never have it installed! I couldn't get the darn thing to work--I'm talkin days I tried (six times I did that out-commenting stuff) and it kept crashing and giving me error messages. I got fed up and went ahead without it....It's been a few weeks and it's working fine for me without it, but (duh) it didn't even dawn on me that other people have it in.
            Also, there may be a few corny messages during diplomatic meeting--nothing to worry about, just incorrect grammar. But if anything else starts acting goofy, lemme know.
            So, anyway, I'm going to go muck around in some files, do more testing, maybe see if I get that PowerSLIC thingy working. Any suggestions would be helpful!

            Later, man.


            N.


            ------------------
            "Smells like monkey in here."
            FLEX, baby, FLEX!!!


            "Verrosten est X-beine das Fahrbar Bliken Obszon
            Abgabepflichtighoffenburger!?!?!?!"

            [This message has been edited by Nordicus (edited October 25, 1999).]
            Existence is Futile.

            Comment


            • #7
              Only one suggestion (so fare).
              Being abel to choose a option like :
              Next time you trespasses i´ll kick you so hard in your ass that you will never see the sun rises again.

              Or something like that. Meaning that a violation of the trespasses agrement will be a act of war, so you dont have to declare war, but it is the AI, declaring war by trespassing.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yeah, can you believe it. I got wiped out on chieftain. (Possibly because I have not been playing chieftain, but I doubt it.) It was very humiliating. I have been playing every Civ related game since the original Civ Game came out and I have never been brought to my knees so fast. The really wierd thing is I did not do anything to provoke them. As soon as I saw one of their units they attacked. Also, every time I got one of my units out of my city readius they were expelled right back. It was coming from all sides at once. There was a lot of civs crowded together. I chalked it up to that and just a fluke because my other games have not been that way.

                Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I just got in from a client's site and have not had much of a chance to check everything out yet. But I will.

                While you seem to be on the right track, I don't see how a lot of the suggestions can get implemented. You have the FLI & AIP files and SLIC. Neither of which seems to lend themselves to making such drastic diplomatic changes. Although, you can get the diplomacy better than it is. (I am not shooting to high for more of an SMAC World Council thing, am I? )

                Enough rambling, back to the testing so I can get some information that is worthwhile.

                Don,
                CtPMaps (Hosted by Apolyton)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Nordicus, don't you have the Apolyton Pack installed? If so, you shouldn't have to do all that out-commenting stuff, nor will you have any bugs with it.

                  About the AI aggression in Harlan's game, I don't think my alterations would affect this.

                  I sent an email to Markos yesterday asking if he knew anything about Activision's improving the game's diplomacy. He hasn't gotten back to me yet. There was a chat with a couple of the Activision people on here a couple of months ago, and from what they said, diplomacy was one of the main things they were looking at as far as an expansion or patch was concerned. In my mind, it should be a patch, since all that out-commented code suggests this was an area that they didn't finish in their rush to get the game to market. I mean, all those things listed above are available in SMAC, and even Civ II.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Wes:
                    Yeah, got it installed. I mean, all the files are apparent, and the appropriate scenarios are there, so I assume it's all in there.
                    But in the file "script.sic" there is supposed to be a line saying:

                    #include "ps_scr.slc"

                    Yes, no? I'm looking at TP's Read Me right now and see that it says this.
                    Wait a sec.
                    I just looked in that one and ps_scr and I think something's goofy. I'm gonna backup my important files and reinstall the whole damn thing. Arg!!!
                    Oh well.
                    Anyway, Wes (Skorpion59, Pintello, Simpson, and whoever else may have and be using my files), I went through my diplomacy files and have a list of changes. Now, I made several more as I went through (part of v1.2, say), so all of the following will not be in v1.1 of course. (And note that *new changes have not been tested yet.)

                    (Reactions from AI to human player in general
                    B=better ... W=worse----meaning that AI civs' reactions to *whatever* will either be better or worse for the human player, or any player, than they are right now----also, the B or W may also/or refer to the thing itself)

                    FILE

                    diplomacy
                    diplomacy_set_loyal
                    (no changes in either of these: I was in error; nothing has been changed, I looked at every line)

                    diplomacy_accepted:

                    1. Map Exchange--Accepted....W (meaning that the AI doesn't get as excited about map exchanges now)
                    2. Advance Demand--Accepted....B (AI has better reaction if it gets what it wants--in this case an advance)
                    3. Gold Demand--Accepted....B
                    4. Attack Enemy Demand--Accepted....B


                    diplomacy_begin:

                    5. Regard Lost to 1st Place (if you are)--if AI in Last....B
                    6. Regard Lost to 1st Place (")--if AI is in Middle....B
                    7. Regard Lost to 1st Place (")--if Neutral....B
                    8. Regard Lost to 1st Place (")--if AI on Same Continent....W (generally more claustiphobic)

                    9. *AI Incursions--Many....B
                    10. *AI's Friends Attacked....W
                    11. *AI's Distrust (of other AI civs)....B (treats AI civs the same as you)
                    12. [Trust levels changed: Less=Same, Much Less= Less-------created neutrality, since it was nonexistent, either more or less]
                    13. *AI('s reation to)Special Attacks....W
                    14. *AI Attack AI Enemy (of yours)....B (AI increases "hot_war")
                    15. *AI('s reation to you) Breaking Treaty....W
                    16. Demand Rejected (by you)--if AI is neutral....B
                    17. Trespassing (by you)....W (it-doesn't balance AI's ambling tendencies, I know, but hopefully something will be done soon about the "Wandering AI Syndrome")
                    18. Keeping Word (your word)....B
                    19. *Wormhole (if you build it)....W (much worse)
                    20. *Wormhole (if you build)--AI will go into extreme "cold war"
                    21. *AI and (getting along with) AI--when you build Wormhole....B
                    22. Regard Lost (because you're human)....B 23. *[if human, you're overall just not trusted as much instead of being always disliked]


                    diplomacy_pre_incoming:

                    24. Accepting Peace Treaty (not at war)....B


                    diplomact_pre_outgoing:

                    25. **Cease Fire Offer (by AI, at war)....B
                    26. **Peace Treaty Offer (by AI, not at war)....B
                    27. **Demand Advance (by AI)....B
                    28. *AI Alliances (between AI civs)--Offer....B


                    diplomacy_rejected:

                    29. Rejected Cease Fire Offer (if at war and you rejected)....W
                    30. Rejected Offer of Alliance (if you rejected it)--the AI will look at it neutrally, not caring if you said no.

                    And these are the ones I'm sure about--I didn't look line-for-line at my files and the unaltered ones, checking for differences, and I didn't make a list the first time, so there's bound to be a lot more in there--but I wasn't drunk when I did it so it should make sense. The * refers to v1.2 changes, and the ** refers to changes of which I am skeptical and will have to test thoroughly as well as look through all the other fli files to be sure it's cool.


                    Skorpion59:
                    It sounds like it might be that there were just a lot of the AI civs around in one place, all pissed at each, and then found you and got really mad or something. Oh well. Let me know how it goes. And one suggestion I have is using the cheat tool (if you're in a game that you don't really care about, yunno) every once in a while and maybe take a look to see what those guys are up to. Anyway, lemme know how it goes.
                    Ah, my neck is killing me and I'm late, so talk later, man.
                    [This message has been edited by Nordicus (edited October 26, 1999).]
                    [This message has been edited by Nordicus (edited October 26, 1999).]
                    [This message has been edited by Nordicus (edited October 26, 1999).]
                    Existence is Futile.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Demolition:
                      I'm not sure about that one, but I see what you're getting at
                      In reality, if another country's troops came marching across the border (hey, another good idea: borders!), geez, all hell would break loose--it'd be an act of war and treated as such. Know whatcha mean.
                      Thanks for the suggestion.
                      Existence is Futile.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Nordicus, I inserted your strings and started a new game. My game crashed two of the three times I entered into diplomacy, due to an invalid page fault. I don't know what this means. I have taken them back out, since they should only contain the new quotes you made. I'll continue with the aips to evaluate them. From your list above, it seems like you have made some good changes.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          *cough* new sig *cough*.

                          ------------------
                          Yeah, can you believe it. I got wiped out on chieftain. -Don Blevens (aka Scorpion59)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            AAAH!!!
                            Wes, can you tell me the exact message error you got? That way I can see which line it was and fix it. Yeah, don't try it again till I find the boggle.
                            Thanks.

                            (AAAH!!!)
                            [This message has been edited by Nordicus (edited October 26, 1999).]
                            Existence is Futile.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              All I have is the crash files that were created. I don't know if they will help or not.

                              •8í, ¸J@ ¾S@ ÖZr 7µø¿> Log started at 08:13PM 10/26/1999
                              > Executable :C:\PROGRAM FILES\ACTIVISION\CIVILIZATION-CALL TO POWER\CTP_PROGRAM\CTP\CIVCTP.EXE
                              > Last Written: 09/07/1999 17:26:18.000
                              > System :
                              > CPU: Intel Pentium II, Model 5 MMX 349Mhz
                              > Windows Version: 4.10 build 67766222,
                              > Computer Name: HQBZX
                              > User Name: Wes
                              > Physical RAM: 66600960 bytes
                              > Available RAM: 1609728 bytes
                              > Page File Size: 2080878592 bytes
                              > Page File Free: 2007314432 bytes
                              > Total VM: 2143289344 bytes
                              > Available VM: 2036203520 bytes
                              > Memory load: 100% used
                              > Direct X Version: 0x600
                              > Cur ScreenSize: 800 x 600

                              CRASH-2CED3895 and CRASH-12A14E31 were the file names.

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