Demo 7 Download and Comments

[Mark_Everson]

I've sent out the Clash Testbed with Laurent's tech mods to Richard and Martin. If either of you guys didn't get it, please let me know.

If there are specific question on how to create scenarios using the xml files, I think it'd be good to start a "Scenario Design Details" or some such thread. It seems that would be of some utility going forward. BTW the Events and Scenarios thread is still the place for high-level discussions of what kind of characteristics our scenario languages should have. If someone starts the Details thread, pleas put the link above in it also.

[edit] One think I forgot to mention is that you will see errors in the dos window on scenario read-in that say "Uninteresting tag...". This means that the parser found an xml tag it doesn't know how to interpret. In the current case they are mostly tags from the diplomacy model that aren't implemented yet. But watch that space, because if you misspell a tag in your changes of scenarios that is where the only notification of the error will show up.

Good Luck on your respective goals with the testbed!

I am appending the readme that goes with the testbed. The tags for the xml example won't show up right, but I'm too lazy to fix it. . .

------------------------------------------------------------

Clash Testbed 7.5 (post-Demo 7.2.1 code) Feb 2, 2003

Please delete the entire old version of the clash testbed (if applicable) before installing this one.

New info:

v. 7.5 Is the post-Demo 7.2.1 code made available so that Richard, Martin, and others can mess with the

scenario files. A new version that supports the tech model more fully (better econ support) will be made

available as soon as practical.

The manual for the xml resources files is now quite detailed. It is critical if you want to understand what is

going on in the scenario files. It is called dataformat.xml

I put in some tags to allow modifications of tech model RP generation for economic activities. One is for Tech

investments using economic orders (ResearchCost), and the other for RPs generated by labor in economic sectors

(RPsPerLabor). Here is an example from Jericho.xml


0.05
0.1


This reduces research cost to buy RPs (tech activity econ orders) by a factor of 20 from normal, etc. The tags

shown go within government which is within civilization. Although it goes in a specific civilization tag at

the moment, the effect is global.

For the moment econ effectivenesses are handled as follows: effectiveness = 5.1 + knowledge of relevant tech.

This subverts the normal definition that effectiveness should double when knowledge does, but is done this way

to avoid possibly breaking the economy. I will figure a better way to do it when I get a chance.


Known bugs:
1. DON'T use the Ruler button, exept to look at it (it is quite slick). It has preliminary govt stuff in it,

that isn't active yet.


Clash Testbed 7 manual

Hello Everyone:

This is a testbed for Clash demo 7+. There are several purposes for the testbed, including, but not limited

to:

1. A graphics testbed
2. An early-alpha tester for running the system through its paces and giving bug reports.
3. Providing a model designer or manual writer with an early version with which to do their thing.

Before you do anything, please make sure you have installed and run the lastest demo. That will ensure both

that you have the Java program necessary to run the testbed installed properly, and also that you know

basically what's going on in the program.

Running the program, and the command-line switches

IMPORTANT:
Before following these instructions, you should have already unzipped the files to C: Preserving the Directory

Structure.

You run the program by executing the batch file RUN_ClashTestbed. You can also add a number of "command-line

switches" at the end of the last line in the batch file. (Edit the batch file using notepad or another text

editor) The default last line says:

java game.manager.GameMain

By adding the -seed "flag" you can make the random number generator use a fixed seed, which gives the same

sequence of random numbers every time. This is Really useful for giving a path to a programmer that

consistently reproduces a bug. To add this behavior change the last line to:

java game.manager.GameMain -seed

You can add any number of such switches. The switches are also used to change between different xml files in

the class\resources directory. More about that later. A complete list of command-line switches can be found

at the bottom.

Note once you run the batch file, you can just enter the last line by hand in a Dos window with any switches

you prefer if that's easier. Each time you reboot you'll need to use the batch file the first time.

The standard tiles are, oddly enough, in the "tiles" folder. Just put any extra tiles in that folder, and put

their names in an alternate xml images file. More about how to do that below.


Using the xml files (only needed for tile and initialization parameter editing)

The xml files are in the class\resources sub-directory. I think it is pretty self-explanatory what general

category is handled in each file


It generally applies to all Clash xml files that:

1. Forward references are not supported. (You can't give a unit a "Philanderer" element unless that element

was defined Earlier in the file.)

2. Any tag which writes to all fields in an object will over-write any
previously set fields for that object. This is a specific case of the
previous rule.


Bug Reports

To report a bug, please use the format already in use in the current bug report file as shown in the second

post of the D6 thread. When the program crashes, you will get a diagnostic output in the Dos window. Please

copy this, if relevant, and attach it to the bug report. Unfortunately these outputs frequently overflow the

screen buffer. If you have an error message that overflows the DOS window you can redirect the error output to

an "error.txt file that will appear in the ClashTestbed\class directory. To do this you must us the -ef flag.

("ef" for error file) Send the file or its contents as the bug report. It is probably best to by default run

using error logging. To do that you can use the RUN_ClashTestbed_ErrorLog batch file. This file also has the

-seed flag set so that behavior that lead to the bug, if relayed precisely, will duplicate the bug when one of

the coder runs it.

For twitchy but non-fatal behavior where something appears to be wrong, you can check out the various text

diagnostic output files for individual models. FE "economics.txt" has some very detailed output on selected

parts of the economy. (These files all appear in the ClashTestbed\class directory.) Look especially for lines

that begin with "Error". For these non-fatal bugs please give a good a description as possible and email the

model output text file to the coder. Bug reports should be posted on the forum.


Support

Contact Mark at markeverson@comcast.net, or

For support on the images or xml file stuff, Gary at gthomas@takaro.co.nz

Let us know what features you would like for the testbed, and xml file capabilities in general.


Good Luck!

Mark


Command Line Switches

(Must be in command line mode (FE batch file) to use)

-ef = error logging to a file
-no = no AI movement
-seed = random numbers use constant seed for reproducible behavior
-800x600 = start in 800 x 600 res mode to simulate 800x600 screen
-allecon = allows Player access to economic orders/info for non-player civs
-riotsoff = turn off riots model (demo 7 feature, default is riots are on)

Switches allowing ability to replace a resource (xml) file by command line arguments:

-r images c:\clash\somefilename

will completely replace the default images file with the named file.

-e images c:\clash\somefilename

will overwrite the resources file with the named file. Use this to
replace only some of the images.

Note: the file name should NOT have an extension specified, and the actual file MUST have the extension .xml
Also, -e cannot be used to overwrite just some fields in a main element - it overwrites the whole element, so

you can't overwrite just
flat 3
to just change the defense
- you have to have all the other parameters of that terrain as well.

Legal changes are to images, terrain or settings (bizarre but legal).

[Richard Bruns]

Bug Report:

Maybe this should have gone in the technology thread, but since it is a bug and not a model discussion I will post it here.

I was altering the Elephant unit in Delenda. My goal was to replace the civilization tag of the current unit with a technology requirement, give that technology to the Carthaginians in the delenda scenario, and make it impossible for anyone else to research it. I added the following to technology.xml:

  <technology>
    <name>Placeholder</name>
    <tier>1</tier>
    <growthrate>1.0</growthrate>
    <upkeep>0</upkeep>
  </technology>

  <technology>
    <name>Elephants</name>
    <tier>2</tier>
    <growthrate>1.0</growthrate>
    <upkeep>.5</upkeep>
    <helper>
      <name>Placeholder</name>
      <requirement>2.0</requirement>
      <effect>0.0</effect>
    </helper>
  </technology>

and gave Carthage a knowledge of 3 in each. Then I altered the Elephant element so it required a knowledge of 1 in elephants, and removed the civilization tag.

I played as the Romans. They had a knowledge of 0 in both techs, as they should have. Placeholder was active, and Elephants was inactive. However, Elephants still appeared on the econ orders screen. I promptly started churning them out, building 13 in Rome and 8 in Marsaglia on the first turn.

On the second turn, the Elephants tech was active, although still at zero knowledge, and I was still cranking out Elephants. So something is wrong with the requirement tags. They appear to simply not function. However, they did function in Dawn. Chariots cannot be built until Horses reches the requirement. (Although it is possble to get Horses to the right level by research, even if you don´t discover the special)

I tested this by changing Delenda so that all the tech, activity, and military data were in the sceario.xml file instead of being read off other files. I was still able to build loads of elephants. I also tried adding the code:

    <buildingorders>
      <minimal/>
      <showorder>Legion</showorder>
        <showorder>Elephant</showorder>
    </buildingorders>

to the Roman government, but they were still able to build Elephants. I can´t figure out why the requirement works in Dawn but not in delenda.

---

There is another bug that may or may not be related:

I gave Romans a Metallurgy knowledge of 3, and added a technology tag to the Attack stat on the HeavySpear element that boosted the attack based on Metallurgy:

<Element>
  <Name>HeavySpear</Name>
  <Default>Warrior</Default>
  <category>foot</category>
  <Attack><value>75</value></Attack>
    <technology>
      <name>Metallurgy</name>
      <baseknowledge>1</baseknowledge>
      <knowledgeeffect>0.2</knowledgeeffect>
    </technology>
  <Movement><value>15</value></Movement>

The first turn, Metallurgy was at 0 and inactive. The second turn, it was at 3 and active. However, the attack of Scipio was 812000 on both turns, exactly the same as the default file, when HeavySpear was not helped by Metallurgy. This meant that the technology was having no effect. To see if it was only existing units that were unaffected, I tried building more Legions. They came ot with exactly the same Attack number.

The java window said "Setter not found for technology in game.military.ElementArchetype" but there was nothing in the error file. Obviously Metallurgy was doing nothing, and the game was choking on it a little.

[Richard Bruns]

I think I know the source of the requirements bug. When testing Dawn with the new tech tree, I found that I was unable to build the Chariot after getting Horses up to a knowledge of 1. I looked to see what was different, and saw that my Chariots unit defaulted to the Warriors unit, and the previous Chariots did not.

When I remove the default and define every aspect of an element seperately, the requirement works properly. Elements that I did not have the tech for could not be built. Obsolescence still did not have any effect, however.

So I am pretty sure that the bug has to do with the default element. The requirements of the default are apparently not overwritten. If the civ is capable of building the element that an element defaults to, then it will be able to build that element. If it cannot build the default element, it cannot build the other element either.

Confusingly, however, helper techs such as Metallurgy work perfectly with the new tech tree, with all units. Every unit stat except Movement and Mobility is helped by something, and they all seem to work properly. As I mentioned before, the game gives me a fatal error if I try to have any tech affect these two stats.

Another bug I found is that any wall that has food in its cost will never be built.

[Richard Bruns]

Oops, double post

[LDiCesare]

I will check both tech activation requirements and unit requirements.
I saw there is a problem with obsolescence because Cohorts don't seem to obsolete Legions any more in Delenda. Still, Cohorts do have a requirement and default values in the elements. Also, I don't think the Romans can build Phalanxes and that should be because Phalanxes are obsoleted by Legions...

About walls and food, yes, it is a limitation. I should have written it in the dataformat file, but it seems I totally forgot the fortifications in that file . Be assured that it is largely explained in the source code, however . The problem stems from having a single economic class for all wall building activity. This means proportions of food/services/production sent into the wall are set by that class and not by the wall itself. Although the walls could register as different categories, there should be only one in the UI or something more consistent. Anyway, the code there falls into the econ area and I let Mark suggest any solution.

I'll check the tech/attack values effect.

[LDiCesare]

Attack and other parameter values all works fine.
Look at your snippet and check where the </Attack> tag is. It should be AFTER the technology tags, not before.Thus the "Setter not found for technology in game.military.ElementArchetype error message. It is not very clear, I will admit. "Misplaced technology tag" or something like that would be better. If you have an idea of an error message that tells things, please say so. Those things are incredibly hard to make understandable.

I guess the same kind of error must be the cause of the requirements for elephants error. Can you check your files or show a snippet for the elephant element?

Movement and Mobility have nothing special, so I can't see why they would crash in any special way. They are exactly the same objects as attack, defense and so on.

Also make sure when you make an element to declare the default tag BEFORE all other tags (except name). Otherwise the default will happily overwrite just about everything you wrote before.

I did reproduce the active techs which should be inactive, and will work on fixing that.

[Richard Bruns]

Yes, the ordering of the <default>tags was the problem. I was putting them after the requirements. It works now. However, in the version of the Dawn scenario that uses the standard files, the Chariot unit still cannot be built. Apparently the game adds to the requirements of the default unit instead of overwriting tham, and since the Dawn civ does not have Military Tactics needed to build a Warrior it can´t build the Chariot either. I will have to work around this.

As I said, I got the helper techs for most things to work in my new files, so I am not even going to worry about what went wrong in delenda. I got the Elephants to work properly with the new files; Carthage can build them but Rome cannot.

However, I can easily reproduce the movement and technology bug as follows. In my file, when the Chariot looks like this:

<Element>
  <name>Chariot</name>
  <default>Warrior</default>
  <requirement>
    <name>Horses</name>
    <knowledge>1</knowledge>
  </requirement>
  <category>lightwheel</category>
  <Attack><value>40</value>
    <technology>
      <name>Horses</name>
      <baseknowledge>1.0</baseknowledge>
      <knowledgeeffect>0.2</knowledgeeffect>
    </technology>
  </Attack>
  <Distance><value>15</value></Distance>
  <Defense><value>30</value></Defense>
  <Armor><value>3</value></Armor>
  <Movement><value>30</value>

  </Movement>
  <Mobility><value>8</value>

  </Mobility>
  <Morale><value>11</value></Morale>
  <Cost>
    <FoodMultiplier>2</FoodMultiplier>
    <ProductionMultiplier>3</ProductionMultiplier>
    <ServicesMultiplier>3</ServicesMultiplier>
  </Cost>
</Element>

the game runs perfectly. But when I make one addition:

<Element>
  <name>Chariot</name>
  <default>Warrior</default>
  <requirement>
    <name>Horses</name>
    <knowledge>1</knowledge>
  </requirement>
  <category>lightwheel</category>
  <Attack><value>40</value>
    <technology>
      <name>Horses</name>
      <baseknowledge>1.0</baseknowledge>
      <knowledgeeffect>0.2</knowledgeeffect>
    </technology>
  </Attack>
  <Distance><value>15</value></Distance>
  <Defense><value>30</value></Defense>
  <Armor><value>3</value></Armor>
  <Movement><value>30</value>
    <technology>
      <name>Horses</name>
      <baseknowledge>1.0</baseknowledge>
      <knowledgeeffect>0.4</knowledgeeffect>
    </technology>
  </Movement>
  <Mobility><value>8</value>

  </Mobility>
  <Morale><value>11</value></Morale>
  <Cost>
    <FoodMultiplier>2</FoodMultiplier>
    <ProductionMultiplier>3</ProductionMultiplier>
    <ServicesMultiplier>3</ServicesMultiplier>
  </Cost>
</Element>

the game crashed with a fatal error and the error log displays the following:

---

Error display: ObjectBuilder invoke method setMovement, parameter game.technology.Parameter@4ee70b
java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException: java.util.ConcurrentModificationException
at java.util.AbstractList$Itr.checkForComodification( Unknown Source)
at java.util.AbstractList$Itr.next(Unknown Source)
at game.technology.Parameter.merge(Parameter.java:79)
at game.military.ElementArchetype.setMovement(Element Archetype.java:141)
at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Native Method)
at game.libraries.parser.SetMethod.setClassParameter( SetMethod.java:214)
at game.libraries.parser.SetMethod.set(SetMethod.java :114)
at game.libraries.parser.ObjectBuilder.setData(Object Builder.java:73)
at game.libraries.parser.ObjectBuilder.setAllData(Obj ectBuilder.java:62)
at game.libraries.parser.ObjectBuilder.(ObjectBuilder.java:53)
at game.libraries.parser.Parser.saveElement(Parser.ja va:95)
at game.libraries.parser.Parser$State.saveNewElement( Parser.java:246)
at game.libraries.parser.Parser$EndTag.addCharacter(P arser.java:469)
at game.libraries.parser.Parser$State.checkCharacter( Parser.java:169)
at game.libraries.parser.Parser.run(Parser.java:111)
at game.data.FileInput$DataFile.parseFile(FileInput.j ava:234)
at game.data.FileInput$DataFile.normalStream(FileInpu t.java:215)
at game.data.FileInput$DataFile.parse(FileInput.java: 242)
at game.data.FileInput.setMilitary(FileInput.java:126 )
at game.data.FileInput.setAll(FileInput.java:103)
at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Native Method)
at game.libraries.parser.SetMethod.setPrimitiveParame ter(SetMethod.java:189)
at game.libraries.parser.SetMethod.set(SetMethod.java :117)
at game.libraries.parser.ObjectBuilder.setData(Object Builder.java:73)
at game.libraries.parser.ObjectBuilder.setAllData(Obj ectBuilder.java:62)
at game.libraries.parser.ObjectBuilder.(ObjectBuilder.java:53)
at game.libraries.parser.Parser.saveElement(Parser.ja va:95)
at game.libraries.parser.Parser$State.saveNewElement( Parser.java:246)
at game.libraries.parser.Parser$EndTag.addCharacter(P arser.java:469)
at game.libraries.parser.Parser$State.checkCharacter( Parser.java:169)
at game.libraries.parser.Parser.run(Parser.java:111)
at game.scenarios.ScenarioFile.parseFile(ScenarioFile .java:88)
at game.manager.Game$AbstractScenarioSelection.execut e(Game.java:151)
at game.manager.Game$ScenarioSelection.execute(Game.j ava:189)
at game.manager.Game.(Game.java:71)
at game.manager.GameMain.main(GameMain.java:11)

---

It doesn´t get much clearer than that. Something is busted in the way that Movement is affected by technology. The same thing happens with Mobility. I also got the same thing when I tried to make the Elephants tech alter the Health of the Elephants unit, which is odd since the Health of Warriors works perfectly, going up with the Biology tech. The Health of Elephants also goes up with Biology, since it defaults to Warrior, which is doubly strange. Also the Morale gave me a fatal error with the Elephant, even though the Attack stat did work fine with the Elephant tech.

[LDiCesare]

Apparently the game adds to the requirements of the default unit instead of overwriting tham, and since the Dawn civ does not have Military Tactics needed to build a Warrior it can´t build the Chariot either. I will have to work around this.

Put a requirement for military tactics of 0.0 to override it. The defaults are supposed to be cumulative, but you can override one that way. I don't think a tech being inactive should be a problem, but it might.

I'll check the movement stuff. In theory, it should work... The exception means something wrong 's happening, and gives me some clues.

[LDiCesare]

I would also like to note that I have never, at any time while playing any of the demo scenarios, seen militia come up in any fight.

Just noticed that.
They do happen, but you need a fight to be a close one in order for them to pop up. A clever player will usually avoid that, except maybe in defense. You can get some in siegewars, if you attack a square with a small enough army, up to and including in Minas Morgul. I once got both goblin and human militias fighting in that city.

[LDiCesare]

I got the problem. It has nothing to do with Mobilty or Movement per se.
It has to do with defining a unit in a file which has a default in another file. The behaviour is random in that case. That is because each file is managed in parallel (in its own thread in programmer-ese). That means you can't have cross-file stuff like a default element in military and the element in the scenario. Actually, it CAN work, but there is no guarantee it will.
The code could be changed to allow that, but that would probably slow the file reading quite a bit. I am not sure I want to mess with that part of the code. I'll at least try to document it a bit.

[Richard Bruns]

Bug Report

Ports seem to be broken. I tried to add ports to provinces in Delenda to see if that would allow me to make triremes, but I got an error message. I got the same error when I set the port to Rome and when I set it to Mare Nostrum, the sea square.

I used the instructions in the dataformat document to add the ports, and I´m pretty sure the xml was right, since I could tell from the error message that the game was trying to build a port. To duplicate this, download 7.7 and add:
<port>Rome</port>
or
<port>Mare Nostrum</port>
to the Latium province.

[LDiCesare]

I checked a bit. Ports are supposed to be land square with an orthogonal water square, so Rome should be OK but not Mare Nostrum.
There is only one port allowed per province.
Can you post the error message? I will try to reproduce and won't have net access for the next few days, so if I can't reproduce, an error trace would be welcome.

[boomer70]

I checked into this a bit further. The error is a NullPointerException thrown from TerrainData.isWater(TerrainData.java:189). I am sure I can protect against the NullPointer but I am not sure if the logic is correct here.

[yellowdaddy]

i've had a couple of quick goes on the demo 7.

first thoughts - i don't entirely like the movement of units.

i'd like to click onec to select the unit, and click again to move it, and forit to change either start flashing or have a different colour around it in some way, just so i know i;ve selected the option i want. i clicked for ages trying to work it out, and naturally reached for the numeric keypad....

i like the waypoints, but i think an alert should come up when the unit meets another, or is requesting new orders.

and maybe a little number above the icon to differentiate it if it's the same type.

i've seen the rings idea which is nice - i've seen a few games just have 3 little different coloured lines above a unit to show the levels of different attributes, i suppose food, strength, and moves left or happiness.

something needs to be done about making a nice military management pop-up interface.

so you can scroll therough your units and assign instructions.

i agree that ni CTP2 they both deepened the game and killed the atmosphere with a barrage of panels - many of them were really good once you got familiar, some were just irritating.

CIv3 has cut of too many of the good bits of previous versions of Civ and Alpha.C.

e.g.:

the world map! from Civ 1

the rotating earth on Test of Time - ToT was great! a decent sucessor to Civ1

the range of units and gov types in CTP1

[i may be getting CTP and CTP2 mixed up - CTP2 was the one with the funny round bit on the interface, yes?]

the hilly terrain, and component type DIY units in Alpha C.

......

all the noise about those pointless 3D leader anims - you can even see them all on the diplomacy section - they don't really do a huge amount for the game, though they are nice to look at, i agree.

.........

the view city/palace/spaceship option in Civ is also a waste of space - i'm waiting for a basic Sim city style city managament - maybe SimCity will beat Civ to that aspect with the new city linking features.

..........

what will happen about water depths?

[Mark_Everson]

Originally posted by yellowdaddy
i've had a couple of quick goes on the demo 7.

first thoughts - i don't entirely like the movement of units.

i'd like to click onec to select the unit, and click again to move it, and forit to change either start flashing or have a different colour around it in some way, just so i know i;ve selected the option i want. i clicked for ages trying to work it out, and naturally reached for the numeric keypad....

??? Why didn't you play the tutorial first? It tells you how everything works. Moving using the arrow keys are a now implemented, and will appear in the next release.

i like the waypoints, but i think an alert should come up when the unit meets another, or is requesting new orders.

A generaly good suggestion. These would be good player-selectable options. Some players won't want to be bothered with a dialog every time as you suggest.

and maybe a little number above the icon to differentiate it if it's the same type.

?

something needs to be done about making a nice military management pop-up interface.

so you can scroll therough your units and assign instructions.

Agree, please make comments in the military thread if/when you have detailed ideas

what will happen about water depths?

Oh, we'll put them in eventually, but they aren't critical right now IMO.

Thanks for the feedback!