Unit Graphics 2

[Twinge]

Ok, here's my Bio i guess:

Twinge
Email: twinge@sluggy.net

Occupation: High School Student, primarily.

Clash Involvement: Misc. -- (Playtesting, Commenting, Some graphics, etc.)

Interests: Computers, Candy, AI, Games, Sleeping, Programming, Lego Machine Guns, Cynacism, Sarcasm, Staying Indoors.

[LDiCesare]

I dug for this thread in order to ask for a catapult/trebuchet image. Since I have apparently coded functional siege warfare (though walls don't build themselves yet), I think having a siege weapon image would be nice. Right now legions have engineers who can breach walls, but another unit would be cool, any siege weapon could do:
Catapult, trebuchet, ram, assault tower...

(I managed to make a nice catapult but was unsuccessful in making the background transparent, but managed to wreck all the pixels in the process so I think I'll leave that task to people who know how to use drawing software)

[LDiCesare]

Auto Updating graphics?

Considering units will become more efficient as tech progresses, I thought it might be a good idea to have their image eventually changes as tech progresses too.
My first thought was: this would allow to model siege weapons as a sincle unit, start with a catapult image and, when the techs have reached an appropriate level, replace catapult by trebuchet. This is really a cosmetic change, but reflects the fact that construction techniques made units more effective. Also, units cost something to upkeep, so that cost may as well be considered an upgrade cost when the upgrade is continuous.

This is very open for discussion, but I think it can be interesting, and it is very cheap to code. It could allow to model lots of units with very few stats (e.g. I think I will have siege weapons (catapult + trebuchet) and then cannon, but if I want a single unit to represent them all, and not worry about upgrading units, that can be done easily. Mind you, I realize that although you could turn a catapult into a trebuchet by reusing the stones and some wooden parts, you cannot change that into a cannon. For other units, mostly infantry and cavalry, however, it could be worthwhile (reflecting the change in clohing, armor, etc. over time, like after roman legions invaded Gaul, they used iron pot helms and chain instead of their previous leather and bronze armor while still being legions).
For instance, after reaching a certain level in gunpowder, you could replace a musketeer with a big untrustful-looking gun with one with a better looking musket.
In scenarios, you could use the change graphics inventively (for instance in a civ2 Russian Revolution scenario, techumseh changed all German units into deserters who were quite inapt at fighting, via Leonardo - here, the discovery of a "End of WWI" tech through event would reduce the stats of all German units and chang their graphics).
It also makes it very easy to have graphics tied to a civ. I know that the tech model isn't intended to provide civ-specific techs, but almost all civ2 scenarios I played included such a tech, so it would be a boon for scenario makers, as they could devise one unit stats and provide different graphics (again, this is something very common in civ2 scenarios: you have 4 or 5 units with the same stats, but different looks depending on the civ).

What do you think?
Of course I would have to have both a catapult image and a trebuchet image (or ram or assault tower...) to make use of that, but I could also change the Carthago scenario to have Legions stay Legions but change graphics when Marian reforms come over (i.e. Military Tactics rises enough) in order to test the stuff (obsolescence already works as romans, being able to build legions, can't build phalanxes).

[Mark_Everson]

I think that's a Great idea Laurent! I can't think of any downside other than needing the extra images. It will give the player tangible feedback on improvements in their own tech in a painless way, and also let them compare military techs. I'll think about it to see if there are any problems, but I'd say go ahead and check it out, and if there is a downside we'll probably see it soon once we're using the technique.

[LDiCesare]

(bump)
Catapults anyone?
Or does someone know how to make a gif with transparent background? I tried using paint, gimp, and a pair of other programs I can't remember the name of, and still cannot manage to do it. Next time I will try to edit the file with a hex editor to get the good background. Did I hear someone say "hack"?

[Mark_Everson]

Hey Laurent:

On maybe getting someone art-capable interested. . . Markos is going to try to get that article I wrote a few months ago up with a news item pointing to it. It describes Clash and puts in a plea for people to help out with playtesting. It may increase traffic to the forum, and possibly get us another artist in the fold.

You might want to email or PM che. He's a pro web designer, and may well know what it takes to make a transparent gif. Also asking on one of the creation forums here at Apolyton might do the trick.

[LDiCesare]

I managed to get the transparency stuff through irfanview. I am not really happy with my catapult, but it will do as a placeholder. I also did a trebuchet which looks ugly by itself but looks quite good in-game. I'll try to get something better, and post on scenario league to try to get some images.

[LDiCesare]

Having (almost) ended my ISP problems, I try to upload the images I made. I'll try to convert some other images from civ2 modders who allow me to if you think they are really ugly.

[LDiCesare]

Now a trebuchet... This one is not very handsome (lacks contrast), but it doesn't show too bad in the game. I am unable to provide in-game screenshot now.

[Mark_Everson]

Hi Laurent:

They look pretty cool. My only problem is that the trebuchet is reminiscent of an oil derrick!

On another subject, I sent you an email at your old email address earlier today. It ocurred to me that it may no longer be good. If your old email address isn't working any longer, could you send me the new one? Or I can temporarily PM you if the email is still up in the air.

Cya,

Mark

[LDiCesare]

My only problem is that the trebuchet is reminiscent of an oil derrick!

Of course. Didn't you know Middle-Age engineers used oil pressure to breach walls? It is only much later that the byzantines thought of putting fire to it by mistake while trying to sink a ship the way they tried to breach walls?
I think I'll try to find one better looking...

[Mark_Everson]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
Of course. Didn't you know Middle-Age engineers used oil pressure to breach walls? It is only much later that the byzantines thought of putting fire to it by mistake while trying to sink a ship the way they tried to breach walls?

ROTFLMAO! I didn't know you were such a student of history!

[LDiCesare]

I used another technique to draw siege weapons (basically starting from photographs or existing drawings), and here go:

[LDiCesare]

That was a ballista. Now a mangonel (I hope my background will show transparent):

[LDiCesare]

And a new trebuchet: