Demo 6 Comments and Bug Reports

[Mark_Everson]

First of all, you can now get 6.12 from the main download page thanks to Markos, Thanks Markos

Man what a bunch of nit-picking grannies If you Must know, I had a release 6.1.1 ready on my machine... I don't even remember what it didn't do for sure, but presumably it didn't fully fix bug 4. So, for my own internal purposes, I named the next one 6.1.2. I was in a hurry so it became 6.12. In short, I'm with Axi on the spec, but incompetent at applying simple numbering schemes .

[axi]

incompetent at applying simple numbering schemes

Yes I know what you mean. F.e. look at your bug list. Bug 137 is identical with bug 140, a couple of lines below.

Keep up the good work boys! Soon Clash will surpass Manifest Destiny in number of releases.

[MrWhereItsAt]

WHOA!

Mark, remember your shameless plug for this thread in GePap's Civ3 General forum thread on radical suggestions for Civ3? Well, here I am (interest piqued), and I am, ahh, finding all this kinda overwhelming. I'll have a go with the demo (not knowing what exactly to do yet, nor what the hell a .jar file is!), but if you could suggest some thread or ANYTHING to this Clash newbie to explain, well, ANYTHING, I would be rather grateful.

[Mark_Everson]

Hi MrWhereItsAt:

I have to run to work so this will be pithy.
1. follow directions on the download page
2. at least glance thru the manual. Movement is Simultaneous! Maybe skip economy for now since that has by far the most text.
3. Look over the sticky thread "FOR AN OVERVIEW OF THE CLASH PROJECT - READ THIS"

Good Luck! Because this is 1) a still admittedly crude alpha demo, and 2)a Radical departure from other civ games, you just need to be willing to give it a little more time to soak

[Richard Bruns]

Complaints/suggestions

I played the Romans. I built up an army and quickly splattered the carthaginians. Here are my impressions:

I cannot undo a road building order I accidentally set. I cannot see roads that are planned but not built.

The econ orders window doesn't work on 600x800. It is chopped off and there isn't a scrollbar, so I can't see the bottom rows. I have to use reorder to see everything.

Graphical glitches and slowness abound. Whenever I scroll on the main map it looks hideous and I have to move the window to make it look right. Can you code a refresh when the user scrolls?

I think that issuing a new move order should cancel the previous one and not get stacked on the end.

The carthaginians had three (at least) "7th army" TF's. Their power circles are small and misleading; a big TF's seems the same size as one unit's.

City names should be labeled. I don't know where Rome and Ravenna are until events tell me about them. The name should be on the map, or at least in the detail frame.

The "Move to nearest enemy" should be recalculated every turn. Now they just go to where the unit was when tne order was given.

The AI does not seem to understand economy of force. It sends units one at a time to splatter against my defenses. Then I can just build up a giant TF and steamroll through their civ.

There should be some kind of home field advantage. Cities fall over way too easily. Maybe in city battles we should generate free horde units to represent militia. When the city is attacked, the units join the defending TF. Then they return to civilian life when the battle is over.

[Mark_Everson]

Re: Complaints/suggestions

Thanks for the coments, Richard! Although its traditional to Try to throw in at least One good thing when you are tearing something apart

Originally posted by Richard Bruns
I played the Romans. I built up an army and quickly splattered the carthaginians. Here are my impressions:

I cannot undo a road building order I accidentally set. I cannot see roads that are planned but not built.

The first is indeed a long-term issue, but IMO not that big a deal. To see roads that are ordered click on the Roads button. When building new roads, all planned roads are shown. Then click it again if you don't want to build anything

The econ orders window doesn't work on 600x800. It is chopped off and there isn't a scrollbar, so I can't see the bottom rows. I have to use reorder to see everything.

Acknowledged issue, but that whole thing is just temporary... it is shown as bug X131 in the list. I am trying not to put much work into interface components that will probably be gone within a few demos. But if there is enough outcry, we can alter directions and do more polishing and less adding of new stuff.

Graphical glitches and slowness abound. Whenever I scroll on the main map it looks hideous and I have to move the window to make it look right. Can you code a refresh when the user scrolls?

Hmm, works just fine for me. What kind of machine are you using? Does anyone else see this?

I think that issuing a new move order should cancel the previous one and not get stacked on the end.

Works for me. What do others think?

The carthaginians had three (at least) "7th army" TF's. Their power circles are small and misleading; a big TF's seems the same size as one unit's.

The naming things are just because we aren't being really careful at this point with names and such. Second issue is already "small feature request" f127 in the list. "Minimum power circle size is a bit too large. I can’t tell from PC if there are one or two full-strength legions in a square. Suggest minimum be shrunk to about 2/3 of current minimum. [high priority, Mark is happy to do if you (Gary) tell me where it is..]"

City names should be labeled. I don't know where Rome and Ravenna are until events tell me about them. The name should be on the map, or at least in the detail frame.

The name Is in the detail frame. Select a square, the city name is right there. For names to appear on the map... I would prefer to wait until we have a "full" map with provinces and all, and then see what seems to work.

The "Move to nearest enemy" should be recalculated every turn. Now they just go to where the unit was when tne order was given.

Yep, I'll put this in the request file next time I update it.

The AI does not seem to understand economy of force. It sends units one at a time to splatter against my defenses. Then I can just build up a giant TF and steamroll through their civ.

Yeah, the next demo should have Much better AI. If something screws up really better AI we will at least bunch units into armies befor attacking.

There should be some kind of home field advantage. Cities fall over way too easily. Maybe in city battles we should generate free horde units to represent militia. When the city is attacked, the units join the defending TF. Then they return to civilian life when the battle is over.

Defender advantage is already coded. Militia we need to think more about... Can you post about it in the military thread, and we can try and get some consensus as to whether its a good thing?

Thanks for the detailed feedback!

-Mark

[Richard Bruns]

Re: Re: Complaints/suggestions

Originally posted by Mark_Everson
Thanks for the coments, Richard! Although its traditional to Try to throw in at least One good thing when you are tearing something apart

The economy seemed to work well. Battles were pretty good overall. If I don't complain, that means I like it or I didn't notice it.

Hmm, works just fine for me. What kind of machine are you using? Does anyone else see this?

See the attached shot. I have a Gateway pile of crap with a Rage 128 pro graphics card.

The name Is in the detail frame. Select a square, the city name is right there.

Not on my game. It just says "Detail Frame" and has the coordinates, terrain, and number of people.

[Mark_Everson]

Re: Re: Re: Complaints/suggestions

Originally posted by Richard Bruns

The economy seemed to work well. Battles were pretty good overall. If I don't complain, that means I like it or I didn't notice it.

Thanks, glad to hear it. Its Almost as important to say what's good IMO.

Hmm, works just fine for me. What kind of machine are you using? Does anyone else see this?

See the attached shot. I have a Gateway pile of crap with a Rage 128 pro graphics card.

Ouch! I don't know what we can do about it frankly, since those are Very low-level routines. Maybe Gary will have some ideas.

The name Is in the detail frame. Select a square, the city name is right there.

Not on my game. It just says "Detail Frame" and has the coordinates, terrain, and number of people.

I understand now. The 640x480 res version is clipping the last line which says something like "Naples (Roman)" The Roman is for ownership, as distinct from the Ethnic Group of the population shown in the line above. If you resize that box I bet It'll be there!

[Richard Bruns]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Complaints/suggestions

Originally posted by Mark_Everson
Ouch! I don't know what we can do about it frankly, since those are Very low-level routines. Maybe Gary will have some ideas.

All I have to do to fix it is to grap the title bar of the map window and move it a couple pixels up or down. That refreshes the screen and it looks ok then. But it gets annoying to do that each time I scroll. Is there a way to code a screen refresh when the mouse leaves the scroll bar?

On a similar note, when I pull up an econ window, all the little number boxes show up first, filling the screen randomly like fireworks. It takes a few seconds for the thing to come up, and gets annoying after a while. I managed to catch a shot of this in progress:

[Mark_Everson]

Re: Complaints/suggestions

Originally posted by Richard Bruns
All I have to do to fix it is to grap the title bar of the map window and move it a couple pixels up or down. That refreshes the screen and it looks ok then. But it gets annoying to do that each time I scroll. Is there a way to code a screen refresh when the mouse leaves the scroll bar?

That's an interesting idea, might work!

On a similar note, when I pull up an econ window, all the little number boxes show up first, filling the screen randomly like fireworks. It takes a few seconds for the thing to come up, and gets annoying after a while. I managed to catch a shot of this in progress:

Its a known bug, I'm too lazy to look up the number. Only looks weird for about 1/2 second on my comp, but I"m guessing its worse for you.

[Henrik]

Is there any chanse at all for a mac version?

[Mark_Everson]

Hi Henrik:

The chances are not bad... The java jar file that the game comes in is inherently portable. What we need to find is a java mac person. They will know the correct approach to let you run it. If you could ask other mac users who know java, and send them here if they are willing to try it, we can almost certainly get you a mac Clash! If someone comes up with one, we'll happily post it with the win version.

Good Luck,

Mark

[LDiCesare]

Henrik, Clash is coded in java, so it is in theory cross-platform. I am not sure which java version runs on Mac, certainly 1.2, maybe 1.3? Try to download the latest java version and see if you can use the game jar.

[KILER]

anyone thought of

Making the gui skinnable?
How about all the artwork in game skinnable?
How about OpenGL support ( heard all you have to do is load the libraries and do some basic things but I'm no expert)?
How about being able to go into battles yourself and order units (like in the heros of might and magic series)?

These are only suggestions and not demands, I wonder if the community would like any of those inplemented, thanks.

Does the game use A* algorithm for pathfinding?

Look at what it can do:
If your game is running on a slow computer, you can adjust your A* heuristic to approximate more. This will speed up A*, so your game won't slow to a crawl on those older computers. Conversely, if it is running on a fast computer, you can adjust the heuristic to give better paths. You have more CPU time, so why not use it to make the game run better? This seems to be a good situation -- players who have powerful computers can get more out of the game; yet you don't leave everyone else with an unplayable game.


I'm really only a newbie at Java (only started this morning, and I'm looking for tutorials and stuff to learn, so plz don't bash me if my ideas suck).
Thanks

[LDiCesare]

I have trouble with road building: First order is OK, but if on the following tuen I order roads, I get a message that there are no finds to build the road, but I let the econ orders at 30% so why does it complain? Also, road-building is pretty fast for me (again, I always put LOTS of kapital in it but even then, 12 squares including 2 hills and a mountain in one turn, it seems a lot).