Ear Candy

[Paul Crocker]

I realize that this topic is less than essential at this point in the project development, but I think that it at least needs to be broached (I couldn't find any references to it by searching...set me straight if it already has been).

As I've been fiddling with the graphics options before us, I started thinking about other elements of the game that could best be described as "chrome". Has anyone discussed that addition of sound effects and/or music to Clash? While it's not essential, it CAN make or break a game by adding to the appeal of the game. I'm not experienced in any way with programming customized sound effects (formats, etc), but I'm assuming that there are packages out there that will fairly easily allow someone to design and implement some sound effects for the game. Any comments, suggestions, cheap shots, or volunteers on this topic?

[Mikael]

Hi Paul,

Just a suggestion for the music:I thought the one in Civ2 was very good, it wasn't too loud(and therefore didn't disturb concentration) and remained very close to the subject: Civilizations. I think it really contributed to the overall feel of the game. Something of the same kind in Clash would be greatly appreciated.

[Mark_Everson]

Well, I can look into the programming aspects... I'm sure java can do .wav files. But I will have to rely on you guys for thoughts on types of sounds we'd want to enable 'cause I turn all that stuff off

[Glak]

yeah sounds really get you into a game if they are done right. However if they are just plain bad like the civ2 sounds they have to be turned off. Like the civ2 sounds are long, that is horrible. Sounds should be short and simple. No composite sounds. I suggest that most of the sounds be simple interface sounds, like clicks. When you hit a button on the interface a muted (not sharp and staticey) click would be heard. Maybe sounds for unit death. I would avoid going with music unless there is someone skilled at composing. Bad music detracts from the game.

Sound will help people get into the game but it is not essential because people have time to read text screens (as opposed to say SC, where you cannot hope to play without sound because you rely on it for a lot information)
So I wouldn't suggest too many event sounds, after all they have other ways to find out about things

[Lord God Jinnai]

Yea, but we shouln't have anything too simple like those Atari type sounds. *shivers* I couldn't stand several hours of "beeps"

[Paul Crocker]

Mark: I agree with you about being able turn off the music. An endless loop of Ode to Joy would put me over the edge! :P

I was thinking more along the lines of maybe some music (perhaps something prerecorded, but not copywrited) that we could use on the intro screen to give the game a more professional, polished look - and that's what we need (especially in demos) to generate interest in the project. Also, some basic sounds (like the clicks described above) as well as some sound effects for battles and natural disasters might add something. I realize that many people ignore or turn those effects off, but some people (like me) prefer to hear their tanks crushing the enemy or hear their swords clanging against the enemy's armor. A game as complex as this one shouldn't be silent, as that would seem, well, incomplete in my opinion. If you are in the group that hates sound FX, just turn it off

Is there anyone out there with experience with implementing sounds in games (including creating original effects)? This would be a great "Duke" position for someone that doesn't have a lot of time, but has a great imagination.

[Glak]

No I wasn't suggesting low quality sounds or beeps, just a certain style of sound use. Quieter sounds that don't ever dominate. You want the play to feel that he is doing something or that he is changing interface modes.

The civ2 sounds were about the worst possible that I could imagine. They were long, loud, and high pitched. Each time you attacked you were "treated" to a sound clip that lasted over a second. That is way too long. I'm thinking something along the lines of a third of a second.

Besides unit commands I think some interface commands are good. Like whenever you go into a nonstandard interface mode. So taking civ as an example you would hear a quiet sound whenever you went into the city screen, you would not hear one when leaving the city screen to go back to the main map.

Perhaps some scroll bars should have been given sounds (like the one that cycles you through cities) but not others (like the one that lists your city improvements).

As for particular battle sounds I suggest no speech, no sounds like a plane taking off, no air raid sirens, none of that stuff that you would hear in civ2. Primative warriors should have 1, maybe two sword slashes per sound you shouldn't hear the battle cries, the whinny of the horses, etc... man just thinking about this reminds me how bad civ2 is. Someone across the hall frequently plays it with the sound on and I keep hearing the chariot sound, that thing is like 3 seconds long.

[Paul Crocker]

Glak: You pretty much hit it on the head as to what I was thinking of... Sounds that are short and sweet, but that add some flavor to the game. The are many sounds (you listed a few from civ2 - or even in civ) that get really annoying after a while. All the same, I get bored pretty quickly with a silent game. Sounds to indicate "rare" events (maybe "once in a game" sounds) can really add to the atmosphere, while those stupid 3-second long sounds that occur 20 times each turn detract from it(remember the multi-note jingle you were treated to in the original civ every time you killed an enemy unit?)

And like I said earlier - if you hate the sounds, just shut them off or turn your speakers down Since the guy across the hall leaves the sound on, apparently he must like it - otherwise he'd shut it off too. I just thought that it would be a good idea to add a little sound to cater those that actually DO like it - especially since it's so easy to add to Clash. Just my $.02

[Lord God Jinnai]

I have a friend who could do the music. He does this proffesionally, along with his brother. He said he'd be willing to help if you needed him to.

[Paul Crocker]

If he's interested, I say enlist his services! While sound (including music for an opening theme perhaps) isn't essential, it will really add to a polished, professional look IMHO as long as it doesn't smack of that cheesy early IBM "Shareware" sound If he's a professional, I'm sure we don't have to worry about that!

[Mark_Everson]

Lord God Jinnai:

Yeah, sounds fantastic! I'm with Paul that an opening theme would be a great place to start. Please tell your friend we're interested!

[Doc Dee]

Hi

I'm new to this area of apolyton, and think the game sounds as though it will be great. And speaking of sounds (pardon the pun)I'd be glad to help if no one is really doing this at the moment. I'm not a professional, but this is a major hobby of mine (for about 10 years)and I do have all of the equipment necessary for such a project (digital audio recording, sampling, physical modeling synthesis etc.) So if there's any interest in starting up this side of things, then count me in.

And good luck to everyone involved in this project

[Kull]

Quick Mark! A volunteer! Round him up!

But seriously, I agree that sound is an important component to achieving a "professional" result. And I agree with Paul, that those who don't care for them can always turn them off. Having said that (and noting that I'm no expert), could we perhaps offer the gamer a "sound menu", something like this:

In-Game Music - On/Off
Battle sounds - On/Off
Civilian sounds - On/Off
Rare Event sounds - On/Off

If it's too complex, off to the waste can with it! But otherwise it gives more choices to those who want a customized experience.

[Yakopepper]

About the music, I think(hope, if not to difficult) there should be music for each individual civ. Music that pertains to that civ. Music people associate with certain countries or cultures. This music should of course be soft on the ears and could possibly change over the ages(for certain civs). This would help capture the feeling that Im the Chinese or Japanese and since Im American and live in America its hard to get that feeling.

Also since there is little to distiguish(sp?) civs apart, this might help somewhat.

Daniel
[This message has been edited by Yakopepper (edited October 16, 1999).]

[Big Dave]

I'd like to see sounds in an industry standard format, MP3's and Waves, unless someone has a better idea. This would mean that (assuming player customization ala CTP and Civ II) that players would be able to add their own music for custom scenarios.