Beyond Alpha Centauri::: Discussion Thread 3

[Mr. President]

Originally posted by kassiopeia
Has anyone ever actually taken a shot at explaining what exactly is Quantum Tunneling?

It's not entirely clear what it is or what causes it; many of our best scientists are not sure themselves. It seems to be a phenomenon that occurs only at the quantum level, where a particle basically teleports to a nearby location, bypassing any physical, electrostatic, or gravitational boundaries. There is a miniscule but non-zero chance that conventionally-sized objects can experience it. I read someplace that if you could walk into a wall once every second, after an amount of time greater than the lifespan of the universe had elapsed, you would move through the wall.

[Kassiopeia]

Mr President: You mean that this is a thing already speculated in actual scientific basis before? You see, I do know of things like this, but couldn't quite add the word pair Quantum Tunneling to the Finnish correspondants.

It's just that I seem to have the talent of writing scientific gibberish that's probably entirely unpossible and fictional, but, I'll be damned, sounds impressive.

[Mr. President]

Oh yes, quantum tunneling is talked about by real theoretical physicists. They claim to have observed it at sub-atomic level.

The whole thing worries me, particularly the fact that relativity and quantum mechanics are completely incompatible. Quantum gravity seems to have fallen off the face of the earth, and superstring theory sounds more unworkable with every day that passes, so I don't know where they will go from here.

[Mellian]

Sovereign....

Protectorate has 15/ly drives now.... doesn't mean they all ways had it that fast. They also develop FTL tech by themselves, basing it on some ruins at their graveyard world... which the Fraal who created the wormhole to Beta Hydri forgotten about...

University will of course have an edge in FTL tech, since they are the ones who first develop FTL and then force to give up the initial techs to the rest of the chiron factions. Anyway, University already as a edge in FTL drive then the rest of Chiron factions.

Now, about reactors... I already said before that FTL drives are sensitive and quite complex...which is why it is a slow process to fine tune FTL drives to higher speeds, which humanity is doing so gradually. so it is pretty easy to connect a fusion reactor and up to a FTL drive, if you develop the tech to properlly convert that power to a FTL..... to much power to a FTL will only short circuit it and ruin it.... so factions will have to learn to improve FTL drives so they don't get ruined by to much power. also, don't confuse Matter/Antimatter reactor and the use of Antimatter as a fuel for the FTL drive. Right now, all factions except University apparently and maybe the Hive, with their minor tech help from the bree, don't have reactors connected to their FTL drives... they have a seperate power source for FTL drives and that is Antimatter only as a fuel.... no matter/antimatter reaction.... That is why the Morganites is into the FTL business and making a profit by producing Antimatter and FTL Drives.... and don't think they will be interested in Reactor to FTL technology, as they will lose their Antimatter business... like Oil Companies not wanting Car companies to invent a engine that doesn't depend on gasoline. now, university has the matter/antimatter reactor tech and the ability to connect their FTL drives to it, without wrecking the drive, not needing to depend on antimatter fuel, but the FTL drive itself right now can only tolerate certain amount of power.... which is up to 15ly/day in average.... Bigger ships needs slightly more power for them to use FTL....while smaller ships do not.... SO, don't need some new Reactor base on something we never heard/read of.

******************

As for Metallic hydrogen...... those platforms hidden in the Gas Giant in Lalande isn't metallic hydrogen, they are different metals of an advance nature. The ancient civilization if built it could be the same ones who constructed the stargates. Also, university will get access to Lalande as the Cyborgs won't allow it.... they been denying access to their system since they called dibs upon it for their own personal reasons....and they are not saying why... meaning, other factions don't have much knowledge of the system, or what they have there.... they don't know that there is a human society from the survivors of UNS Hope developing there along with seperate alien humanoid species. There may be rumours, but not enough to mount any action against the Cyborgs who is leaving them alone, and being nice enough to share their big tachyon comm network. Since i am not able to play very much, rather leave the Cyborgs and Lalande alone.

******************

All and all, no transphasicplasma reactors or metallic hydrogen...especially by 2720-30!... as they both don't make sense and seem unpracticle anyway. As for 18ly/day... maybe by 2720-2730...but not now. University already as a edge in FTL and 18ly/day to a single capital ship and not the rest of the fleet doesn't make sense.... FTL is a important tech and doubt anyway will put it off until later.

-LMP

-LMP

[Mellian]

2. I've given some thought to the name of the new FTL reactor. It will be called Hypermatter, which is slightly advanced than antimatter. For a more detailed explaination of this, either search Lycos, or this good Star Wars v.s. Star Trek webpage

I say no to Hypermatter too...because the info about it on that site is just exagerations and stats, no concept or theory.... just reminds me of a super large Fusion Reactor and don't where that webperson got his hypermatter thing from.

as for the site in general, way to pro-starwars with quite an exageration on Starwars techs and heavily underestimating Startrek tech. Anyway, both universes are mest up technology wise anyway

-LMP

[Mellian]

Meanwhile... (Prepares himself for more criticism from our beloved Mellian)

Of course thats what happens when you base your stuff on technology screwed up and exagerative sci-fis.

Imperial Star Destroyers are 1.6 and the mark 2 and 3 at 1.7 km.

The amount of crew they need is exagerative...unless their computer technology is terrible..... which is odd... if they can make sentient androids, you would think they can make decent ship techs and use automation considerably more Now, for a faction that suppose to be generally more advance then the other chiron factions and terrans (on par with the Protectorate)...why would they use so much people to opperate a single ship when their tech can seriously downsize the amount of manpower needed?

the Terran BC uses a crew of 1 000 for crying out loud

-LMP

[Mellian]

Originally posted by Mr. President
Oh yes, quantum tunneling is talked about by real theoretical physicists. They claim to have observed it at sub-atomic level.

The whole thing worries me, particularly the fact that relativity and quantum mechanics are completely incompatible. Quantum gravity seems to have fallen off the face of the earth, and superstring theory sounds more unworkable with every day that passes, so I don't know where they will go from here.

see people? all BAC techs is base on real life theories and secondelly from other Credible sci-fis.

just out of curiousity, does anyone ever read anything on the Observer Effect? or something like that.

Way i see Quantum Tunneling is stretching a light beam and fit a ship into it... and the power is use to push the ship across the tunnel.

Anyway, how you know relativity and quantum mechanics is uncompatible? Anyway, anything is possible if we put our minds to it... if we believe it is possible without a doubt, then it shall be. The universe is formed by our minds don't you... we are all gods, weare the ones forming this physical universe (plus whatever other sentient or non-sentient beings out there).

Besides, if we can stop Light, then accelerating it is possible

-LMP

[Mr. President]

How do I know that quantum mechanics and relativity are incompatible? I suppose I don't know it personally, but it's generally accepted that they are. The former describes a universe ruled by probability, whereas the latter is more of an "old-fashioned" physics theory which is strongly deterministic.

The universe is formed by our minds . . . So you believe that there is no limit to what science can achieve? I have to disagree. There is always going to be something which is out of our grasp. The human brain is simply not built to know everything that there is to know.

edit: By this, of course, I mean that it is a finite instrument. No finite instrument can comprehend an object of functionally infinite complexity such as the universe.

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Mellian

the Terran BC uses a crew of 1 000 for crying out loud

-LMP

And even that is kinda much. (ECSN Battle Carrier, ~600 to 700 crew, 200 pilots)

Considering the fact there are sophisticated computer systems (like the Colonial AI on Titan) and advanced graphical and mechanical interfaces (like the holographic interface Admiral Kamalakara used on the Galaxy in the Battle of Titan), need of manpower is, as pointed out, very small.

***

Getting a sense (and attempting to define military-wise tactical and thus important concepts and boundaries) to the term that is...

Quantum Tunneling.

Obviously, it has something to do with 1) Quantums and 2) Tunnels, more accurately, *making* tunnels.

Of course, the *energy resource* could be connected to Quantums or Tunneling - Some sort of fuel that is used fora generator that can convert the space around the ship smaller etc.

So, what do we know of Quantums (Qs)? They are very small particles, that can carry an electronic charge (With the possibility of Q-Computers and all?). Now, let's think. Will our Tunnel that we will create and/or use, will it be made of Qs, will it be as big as Qs, or will the ship travelling within it be reduced to Qs?

The First Option. A Tunnel made of Quantums. This could be some sort of a dimensional shortcut, a bind that brings to corners of the universe close together so that the ship can leap from one corner to another. The reason for not using this to traverse infinitely big distances could be explained with the humongous need of energy etc.

The Second Option. Quantum-sized Tunnels. Well, basically, this is Option One, but could be diversified and/or separated by leaving actual Quantums out, and making the tunnel sized of Quantums, or bring the Quantum thingie more closer.

The Third Option. Ships sized of Quantums. Now this could be interesting; a ship could have a containment field of, say, neutron particles, that prevent stray particles from jolting the ship off the tunnel, or to screw up it's energetic state (this is kind of what the Ragnarok incident is implying to).
The ship could be "Quantumized", so that it's mass is reduced to almost zero, yet it could carry a statial pattern that would allow it to rematerialize itself. This could be combined with options 1 and 2 to minimize the need of energy and to bring the numbers to not-that-Star-Trek -levels. Of course, explaining why this couldn't be used in some other applications would be a different thing altogether.

Mr President posted something interesting;

It's not entirely clear what it is or what causes it; many of our best scientists are not sure themselves. It seems to be a phenomenon that occurs only at the quantum level, where a particle basically teleports to a nearby location, bypassing any physical, electrostatic, or gravitational boundaries. There is a miniscule but non-zero chance that conventionally-sized objects can experience it. I read someplace that if you could walk into a wall once every second, after an amount of time greater than the lifespan of the universe had elapsed, you would move through the wall.

Hmmm, a ship that seeks faults in the quantum state of the universe and then peruses them in travelling - increasing the chances of this "penetration" of the wall greatly?
How about making our QT device a "search engine"? It would search for miniscule quantum 'ridges' or 'disrepancies', small shafts in the space-time continuum's fabric and then would allow the ship to "ride" them and jump distances? Like seeking water currents on the seas on Earth. The "Slipstream" is IMO something like this. These shafts would be very common, and locating and riding them would be simple, but would consume a whole lot of energy.

So far, it would be obvious that the following conditions need to be met for a ship to succesfully get to FTL.

Equipment.

A ship capable of housing the following list of equipment: A Quantum Tunneling Device, several, pending on form and size of the ship; Enough fuel (Like Elerium) to fuel the QTD; A Power Generator sturdy enough to spark the QT effect to take place and to keep the ship going; possibly a protective energy field or barrier of sorts to keep the ship safe while in transit.

Place and time.

Well, depending on what the method of QT will be, probably a lot of clear space around it to avoid any dangerous situations; enough time for the Equipment to heat up properly and work; and, probably, there would have to be a limited amount of external kinetic energy, i.e. gunfire, in the zone. Also, pending on the to-be method, it could be possible for the QT to be entirely impossible for a moment, or in certain places. Maybe minimal gravitic effect to avoid getting off course, like a gravity well of a planet distorting the Quantum shafts mentioned before. Also, navigating to FTL in gas clouds could be hindered somehow.

All this can also rely on how the scanners on the BAC ships function.

***

This is what fifteen minutes of off-hand speculations could produce. Discuss.

My head hurts.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by History Guy
Sounds good Mr. Prez.

Where's Lonestar?? I want to know what happened to Lord Protector Ian!!

:: Stumbles out of wilderness ::

What happened to who how now?

I'm waiting for Franky's response to the Lord Protector's letter.

I think in a little while here, the Protectorate is going to anounce itself to all Human factions...and offer to mediate the Morgan Industries-TA conflict.

And then, possibly propose a Human League of Nations, named after the Iroqouis 5 Nations, the "Hodenosaunee League" (Iroqouis for "The People")

I plan to conspiciously leave the GHE out of the invitation.

Comments?

(This will NOT unify all of Humanity, just give a common organization for everyone to jon. Akin to the UN)

[Mr. President]

Kass,

I like your ideas about quantum tunnelling, particularly the idea of seeking naturally-occurring quantum tunnelling events. Perhaps the enormous energy source is used to enlarge the event and basically point it in the right direction, and then to hold it "open" while the ship passes through. Given the nature of tunnelling, travel would probably be very, very fast. You would probably emerge almost immediately on the other side.

[Frankychan]

Wow Lonestar-

We haven't heard from you in a while...

I figured Lonestar+Texan+Spring Break= Parties.

Anyway, my bad dude. I didn't know you were waiting for me.
I think our two governments relationships will reach a new.....level.

*rubs hands together, Mr. Burns-style*

'...League of Nations' huh? Protector Ian obviously does not know history. That's ok that Emperor Yang is not involved...
He would obviously see this as an attempt to bend the other governments to serve the Protectorate and be nothing but pawns.

...now if they were to ally themselves with the Hive Empire, they would see that they were equals instead of pawns...

Mellian-

Thanx for the input. As for the sizes, I'm workin' on it!
As for the 'Vettes, I was thinking that this ship would be the most common ship in the Hive fleet. Of course we'd have others but in space battles, Hive enemies would see many of these ships.

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Mr. President
Kass,

I like your ideas about quantum tunnelling, particularly the idea of seeking naturally-occurring quantum tunnelling events. Perhaps the enormous energy source is used to enlarge the event and basically point it in the right direction, and then to hold it "open" while the ship passes through.

Thank you. The idea you particularly mentioned occurred to me just when I was posting the text, and like always, the last minute ideas are usually the best ones.

And it gives that feeling of being on the mercy of the nature, and it resembles sailing the seas in a way.

Given the nature of tunnelling, travel would probably be very, very fast. You would probably emerge almost immediately on the other side.

Yes, but it shouldn't be that instantaneous. Of course, it could be a multitude of short tunnels, thus lengthening time of travel.

[Sovereign]

Thanks Mellian.

I feel so silly, I didn't think of cutting down ship crews due to automation and computers!!!

(Proceeds around and smacks his head in every wall in existence)



1. I'll fix the crew numbers.



2. The Hypermatter... well I was looking thru the websites for pic's of the Star Destroyers to post on the datalinks as you suggested, Mellian. Thats how I came across the Hypermatter idea, and I thought it made sense.

I'm not a big science geek who knows every technology that are feasible and which ones aren't. But thanks Mellian for correcting my mistakes in that area. I appreciate it, I really do!

I'll drop the Hypermatter reactor and use a "refined Antimatter reactor" instead. How does that sound?

University already as a edge in FTL and 18ly/day to a single capital ship and not the rest of the fleet doesn't make sense.... FTL is a important tech and doubt anyway will put it off until later.

Well, the Prometheus is a prototype, and prototypes always have new tech and experimental devices, engines, weapons, etc built into them. Thats the purpose of the prototype, to test it out. THEN the 18 ly engines will be upgraded in the older ships by 2720 or 2730, and that fits in with your idea, Mellian

As for 18ly/day... maybe by 2720-2730...but not now

.




3. Do you think the "cylinder" ships are ok Mellian? They somewhat reflect the Star Destroyers, but in a much more round shape. They have a vague triangle shape, from front to back, like the Aegis cruiser.



4. About Metallic hydrogen.

I understand your criticisms. Ahh!!! Now I remember... its solid hydrogen, isn't it? I think I'll go back to ToT and look up in the Civiliopedia to double check if its Solid Hydrogen, Metallic Hydrogen, or whatever the material the platforms in Nona are made of.

I was thinking about having the "long dead Lalande ancient empire" ruins in the Spira system to show that the empire wasn't just confined to one system. It obviously had space travel and superior technology compared to humans and Protectorate and Dosi. A civilization or empire that advanced should be able to colonize worlds, or at least set up food or research outposts in other star systems.

A good similiar parallel would be the T'Kon empire from Star Trek. That empire was mostly in one solar system, but left outposts in other systems which were research centers, listening outposts, etc.

So University accidentally discovered the ruins of one of that Lalande empire's research outposts or ruins of its small colony.

What I have in mind would be a much smaller and "scaled down" version of the floating platforms from Nona, with interesting artifacts and gizmos, as well as provide University new insight in new matter compression technologies (like Solid Hydrogen, I think). BUT, that new matter compression technology won't be fully understood for a decade or more, then University will have to prototype it. Then after the prototype, then a ramping-up of upgrading to older vessels. These upgrades won't happen until 2730 or so, about the same time Prometheus will perhaps be mass produced (if the prototype works out well)

The ruins would be similiar to the mysterious temple in Drone territory, that is being studied, but doesn't give up its secrets readily or easily.

I'm not saying there's like 500 ruins. I'm using an established ancient civilization from ToT, and it's a part of BAC (Lalande). The Lalande system exists in that universe. Therefore, the ancient empire should have existed in BAC's past, and have had some sphere of influence or colonized at least a couple of systems.

I'm not trying to involve the Cyborgs or Lalande. I'm trying to show that the Lalande empire DID colonize at least a system and left ruins there. The ruins will be out of the Cyborgs jurdisction, so no need to worry about Cyborgs being involved. University wouldn't know it's the same people or similiar ruins to Lalande.

[Frankychan]

Lonestar-

good post! should prove interesting when Protectorate unveils itself and Yang decides to warn the other governments...

About Gaian infiltrators, there would only be 3 or 4 sanctioned Gaian-Hive research stations in the Empire. At first I only wanted the one on New Lanark (Alynzia came into BAC before I did). Hope this helps but I don't think the Protectorate will get much info from the Gaian's cause they are heavily restricted.