The Chiron Chronicle: Discussions 2

[Cyber]

That´s good enough. Make atleast some problems within the Chiron alliance so that there is even a slight chance for some other faction from outside to fight and defy the power of the alliance.Give us a chance!

Sprayber, the cult of war has dug its roots deap into Sparta, meaning there are many cult members amongst the population. So, a massive population movement might need large investments(like more colony pods and other stuff...)Anyways, i was thinking that Sparta could establish atleast two more colonies, so that the Cult can act fairly independent on the island. Still, the Cult and Sparta will have close relations and a strong pact, of course. The Cult will always stay as a sub-faction.
You can imagine the cult being a religious movement, bound to either convert or eliminate. So its resembles the believers in a way.
BTW, the western army (3War rovers, 2Msl rovers) still resides in War Outpost.
I´ll move the three Cult of War units( in the conquered PK bunker near UN Haven City)back into Spartan territory. Though they officially obey the highest Spartan authority, the real ones they listen to are the priests. The Priests already know about the cease-fire, and now their main concern is to get some forces backing them, as they don´t like Kessel either The units will probably go to War Outpost, where they´ll meet Halzburg( Generals correct name)

[Guardian]

Just one minor point... If the Cult is going back up north now, they'll have to go through Commander Cooke's forces...

[Cyber]

The cease-fire is still on, right? The cultist still wear Spartan symbols, and besides the peacekeepers don´t even know about the existance of the Cult. Of course they´ll circle Cooke´s forces, but i don´t see any other problems...
[This message has been edited by Cyber (edited May 03, 2001).]

[Guardian]

Oh, that's right... I forgot... yeah, we've been fighting them for months, but no, we really don't know that they even exist... Does that make sense to you? -And what makes you think Cooke would leave his forces all neatly stacked in one place? Oh, I forgot again... he doesn't know that the enemy force he was sent to surround even exists, so how could he possibly surround them...?

Hmmm... what's wrong with this picture...?
Sorry to seem like an ass, but come on, get real...

Besides, would the Cult really give a hoot about the cease-fire in the first place?? I'd suspect not. So, they wouldn't stop shooting at the Peacekeepers in spite of repeated warnings, and so after a while Cooke would be authorized to move in with the intent to destroy them all...

And before you go overboard with the "atrocity" with that rover, all the Peacekeepers did was gather the most mutilated bodies after a battle and load them on a rover, which was then sent back to Data Acquisition with a little message thrown in for good measure... No, it wasn't a nice thing to do, and certainly not something you'd expect from the Peacekeepers, but no harm was done to anyone who wasn't dead and blown apart already...

[This message has been edited by Guardian (edited May 03, 2001).]

[Cyber]

As I said, they are wearing Spartan ground troop symbols. If some very daring probe team hasn´t infiltrated Spartan top-secret files about the Cult and the position of their troops, then there is no way they can know that the Cult has actually gathered up sizeable military units, and sent them to the front. The only thing they know about the Cult is what they did in Janissary Rock in the rebellion.
Are you really sure they are going to shoot at Cooke´s forces?.First, the cultists know about the cease-fire, and they aren´t going to start breaking it now. Their main concern now is how to handle the new political situation in Sparta, so they don´t need some PK´s shooting SoPo at their backs.Second, are they really so stupid as to attack a force four times bigger than theirs? I don´t think so...
Besides, we´re not talking about some hothead rookies trying to make a kill, but highly trained and disciplined soldiers who won´t start disobeying orders, and taking the situation into their own hands.
So, now it´s up to Cooke... will he break the cease-fire?

The "atrocity" rover is a perfect propaganda weapon . Kessel won´t surely use it, but some other elements like Halzburg (or the Cult at a later stage) would die to get that tape. Who cares if the Spartans were already dead when stuffed into that rover. It´s gonna be damn hard for the PK´s to prove that . In the light of the evidence, the PK´s shiny reputation is going to have a nasty dent.And thats enough to make some more friction between the Alliance members...

[Sprayber]

*sigh*

I changed Commander's Keep to Assassin's Redoubt. From the way I understood it they were farther north. But it's still cool the way it is. Take less time to get to the base now anyway.

[Guardian]

Cyber: You say it's gonna be hard for the Peacekeepers to prove that those Spartans were already dead... Well, it's gonna be even harder for the Spartans to prove that any Peacekeeper was ever anywhere near that rover! Excuse the pun, but the way you've been f@?!ing up their integrity, it's gonna look like the Spartans manufactured the whole thing themselves! Lal will say he knows nothing about it, which will be the truth, and his allies will believe him. Braddock will say he knows nothing about it, which will also be true. Commander Grafton and commander Cooke will say they know nothing about it, and that will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth... Corporal Johnson (Kyla) will know nothing about it and she certainly won't suspect her own people when there are Spartans involved... See where I'm heading? They're all gonna think the Spartans did this to their own people...

As for the Cult, it seems we're back where we left off... No agreement in sight!
And yes, commander Cooke will blow them half-way back to Earth if they try to go through one of his units, and you can't say he attacked you if you were the one who was moving, ignoring warnings, etc...

[This message has been edited by Guardian (edited May 04, 2001).]

[[LordLMP]]

Whoa there.

Cyber, game reality check... there is no such thing as a SINGLE bunker in one square...there is a clusters of bunkers in a area of 500km x 500km square. Also, i doubt that three cult of war units out of four survived the half a year or more stretch out bunker command like warfare in one square. I don't care if they are "supernatural" , the majority cannot survive. They were outnumbered by PK and Cult of Planet units/mindworms...sure they took losses and the stretch out battle ws brutal, but doubt that the majority of the Cult of War units survived. Not like that took one bunker out of a cluster and stayed there while the PKs/CoP did nothing to them in period of atleast more of a half a game year! no.


Just stating the reality check and don't bother trying to make anymore simulations with SMAC, no no no. I tell, i'm sure if i done the simulation, and reprogramme the game to allow Real Time instead of turns, wouldn't be so easy.

Sorry for being a pain like before, but just stating the reality and do edit any posts you made concerning "three CoW infantry units that survived, even in the red status" Measuring the force by quantity, in total, not wether how many Unit Commands that survived. writing this before checking the Game thread

-LordLMP

[[LordLMP]]

Another note, the pks at the defence lines may not have complete information on the Cult of War or the name, but during the bunker command like battle, they have succeeded in retaking some bunkers from the CoWs...so pretty much found disgusting evidence of "Evil Gothic" like rituals and so on, which labels them as complete monsters and the PKs there becoming fanatical about it, so ended up in a very brutal bunker command like command. (Infantry vs Infantry/Mind worms/Artillery units). I'm sure the Cult of Planet took some mind worm losses there. And since you mention that the CoWs heard about the cease-fire a bit late, as if they would just stop fighting. The PKs at the defence lines may hesistated a bit since they definatly got the news about the cease-fire, but its hard to do that when the CoWs are still fighting them! but would have slowed down a bit, especially if the CoWs took heavy losses by the time of receiving orders to move to War Outpost. So because the fight still continues a bit longer after cease-fire was declared (Kessel declared it, which he has no control of the CoWs) and that Cooke's Units is currently in the pre-war PK/Spartan border area and in CoWs way, doesn't no problems will arise. Again, squares are 500km X 500km! so stop thinking of it in game terms! Cooke's units would be spread out and the CoWs, minus the heavy losses, will not be able to "Overpower". General Kessel has mentioned that the Spartans is currently having internal problems, which pirate infiltrators can confirm. And the Peacekeepers along the defence lines would be informed of it, so they will still definatly fight any "rogue" spartan units.

The only real sensitive area which would definatly effect the peace talks is the situation at Data Acquisition, as the peacekeepers know Kessel does have some control over the Combine Army.

also Cyber, i'm sure you mentioned that the Combine army was comprise of North and South armies, but later reinforced with the Western Army.
The Main Army which Helzburg currently controls is pre-war size minus losses to Cooke's Units, plus rover reinforcements, minus 4 rover units.
Blockade Guardians under Kell's command following Kessel minus 2 msl rovers of pre-war size.

The base at the island is not big enough yet to produce any units, including infantry with the small population there. Don't want any heavey military combat at that island, except a few platoon size units combat thought, after i bring in the Alien Center to the story which will begin a race to reach it.

anyway, no more Overpowering! and do edit post Cyber to match with base on the reality i mentioned

-LordLMP

[Sprayber]

To be honest about the cult of war. I was going to let them die off down there. And have some inside Sparta to start causing trouble about the time Helzburg/halzburg made his move for Sparta Command. Kessel does not like the cult. He is totally against the very concept of the cult being put over the regular soldier and milita men. My original concept was for Kessel to lead a coup against Santiago for that reason and for a few others. But LMP already had a story going so I took that route instead. In fact he would rather see them exterminated if he could get his way. There was going to be some news of executions to be leaked to the outside. And now since there is going to be this big land rush for the Alien Center the cult of war base becomes extreamly important for the Spartans. Maybe enough to temporary "allow" Blast Rifle Crag to stay the way it is . I think that makes it much more important that the factions that already have bases there all be controlled. I know it's hard to get people though.

LMP: What is the plan for Blast Rifle Crag? I thought maybe Pontas would announce that it would become a free city along the lines of the Planatery Council Base. Like a place where everyone would be welcome. And a demilitrized base except for the defense. Of course the Spartans won't be terribly pleased at this. But really can't do anything about it with the situation in the south and eventually the land rush. Pontas would perfer this than living under the Alliance. A subtle difference maybe, but in international politics small differences can sometimes mean a lot. Maybe even a place to meet for future diplomatic events. Any concerns or objections?

[[LordLMP]]

No problems with it I originally planned to take control of Janissary Rock, but Cyber moved the Blockade Guardians there so shifted my focus to Blast Rifle Crag, which is better. Take a base where they can base the Battle Dragons and the Gaian Reinforcements, so providing the Spartans a two front war. But do to the cease-fire, Svensgaard or the Gaians cannot follow up on their plan. But because the Base declared independence, gives even more reason to have a Chiron Alliance presence to support them.

Do as you wish with Blast Rifle Crag Spray If the peace talks is finish and a DMZ is established, the Gaians would leave for the DMZ to patrol it... which either requires them to cut through Spartan territory or get back in their transports/IoDs to down to Haven City, with Pirate escort of course I will only bring the Alien Center thing after peace talks and the IPF/Embassy ideas are delt with.

-LordLMP

[Cyber]

Okay, i´ll edit the post and the troop size... its just that nowhere was mentioned about the bloody bunker battles( and they should definately been atleast mentioned!) before you told me, so I assumed the Pk´s had for some reason left the CoW´s alone. Is 1.5 CoW units small enough?
About the western army, i definately remember placing them into War Outpost and they should still be there. One of the motives placing the army there was to guard that PK forces would not circle the Spartan attacking armies and attack War Outpost, thus cutting the supply lines and ending the campaign( and because of antiminds fungusfield near the base )

Guardian, am I sensing anger? If that is the case, I apologise for angering you. Don´t take this so darn seriously.

Yes, I f*cked up the Spartans integrity, and if I wanted, I could have f*cked up the PK´s integrity real good too( or maybe they would have all been slaves now, if I hadn´t taken them away to that island). Instead, i created the Chiron Alliance with them, and your damn Pro-War PKs.
The point is, this is just a game, and every player has the right to do whatever he/she wants with a faction. Am I not right? So, chill out...

About the "atrocity" rover, yes the PK´s won´t believe it and will start denying about knowing any of this, but don´t think that every other faction will support the PK´s in this. Afterall, the Spartans are people who live for the military, so they would never do this to their own soldiers. Even the other factions should figure out this. Not all other factions share the same view as PK´s...


[This message has been edited by Cyber (edited May 04, 2001).]

[Guardian]

Yes, you did sense some anger back there, and no, I really shouldn't be angry about a game, but it is kind of annoying when one player keeps acting as if everyone else has to follow rules, but he can just go about doing whatever the heck he feels like... Maybe it's not intended that way, but that's the impression I keep getting.

As for the "evidence" in regards to the "atrocity" rover... there is no evidence!
All you've got is that a rover came in with a truckload of mutilated bodies and that it had a PK flag on it, which could have been placed there by ANYBODY! The Spartans can't prove squat.
I'm not saying nobody's going to ask any questions at all, but it's not like everybody's going to freak out and say "look what those horrible evil Peacekeepers did to the nice, innocent, honorable Spartans!!!" Not in a million years and not on this side of the universe!! Yes, it will probably come out eventually that it was a PK unit who sent that rover, but in any case, this is an isolated incident and nothing more. Hence, it is light years away from "proving once and for all what hypocrites the Peacekeepers are" and all that cr@p. Of course, this is no excuse for that kind of behavior, but as far as the PK's reputation goes, there's not a lot that could happen which a public investigation and a court martial can't fix. -At least that's my opinion...

Now I'm gonna have to go, so I won't be posting anything in the story today, but I'll try to get somthing in there tomorrow. Going to be a busy weekend, so I might not be back until Monday. Not sure though... Anyway, have a nice weekend!

[DarkCloud]

OOC; Thanks Argonaut; Welcome back Cyber.

[[LordLMP]]

Cyber, 1.5 is okay and i have mention the stretch out bunker command warfare in OOC and in discussion. both or one of them...anyway. Better to explained what they have been up too, as that area of the defence lines as been ignored :P and the PKs won't just stand there and don't do anything, or expect the CoWs to take a single bunker and stay there :P they were sent to keep the defence line north of Haven City busy after all, and Guardian indirectly mentioned in the game about it once or twice or more.

Darkcloud, Zarya-Sunrise as already been placed since we restarted the game to 2180, and have mention it and have posted the coordinates. Since you haven't said anything against it then, i left it there. Cyber got some Spartan Probe teams to University via Zarya-Sunrise, and you haven't complained then. Since the existance of Zarya-Sunrise has been mentioned in the game, can't simply say it doesn't exist anymore, sorry Can say its a small base, where the core bases are the big ones. Zarya-Sunrise has a strategical value, navally and economicly(trade). Also the closest University base to the Hive and the Planetary Council. And some Research experiments would be better off doing away from most of the population too...especially Retroviral Engineering for example Other small bases are to keep watch on the Data Angels, isolated communities for the retired scientists, or hidaways and so on :P

-LordlMP