anyone up for another Chiron Chronicles?

[Illuminatus]

No one understand my point - it is not about people it is about infrastructure ( I hate when people completely misunderstand an argument) -

I have often been asked: if we have traveled between the stars,
why can we not launch the simplest of orbital probes? These fools
fail to understand the difficulty of finding the appropriate
materials on this Planet, of developing adequate power supplies,
and creating the infrastructure necessary to support such an
effort. In short, we have struggled under the limitations of a
colonial society on a virgin planet. Until now.
^
^ -- Col. Corazon Santiago,
^ "Planet: A Survivalist's Guide"

It is not the people resource question - it is simpler to arm an regiment of impact men than to launch a satelite since satelite requires a ton of things, like materials, power, and certainly not manpower. (BTW - I think that each faction cant afford more then 10 000 standing troops - I mean they are developing and cant support such an army.).

Well we will have to drop population as realistic, but it was just an thought - 1000 000 after planetfalling with 1000? Do the colonist do anything excapt multiplying?

[GeoModder]

To have about a population of 1.000.000 after one century, every woman must give birth to 7-8 children each 25 years.

And that is without taking natural losses into account (death by accident, old age, war,...)

[Sovereign]

Sorry, Obstructor.

I understand now.

Lets say in year 2100, upon planetfall, each faction is stuck with the necessities.

Nutrients, breathing masks, basic tools, some mining equipment, some pre-fabricated material for house building, etc.

Then 50 years pass. Colonies are established. Infrastructure grows, and technology improves to Earth pre-Unity levels. People already know how to do technologies. They don't have to re-invent anything like the plane, computers, rockets, etc.

After all, the BEST of the BEST were put on Unity, not some retards.

Turn the clock to Year 100.

The colonists have grown a lot, having a solid infrastructure set in place. They have resources coming in, economies are growing, towns / cities expanding, etc.

With a solid infrastructure, especially with computers and metals, a faction can send up rockets. They simply have to add a module to the rocket, and fire it off much like we did with our satellites before the Space Shuttle.

The computers can calculate the mass, fuel requirements, rocket trajectory, etc. while the metals and gases can be put together into a rocket.

Build a computer with several antennas and radio stuff, shoot it up into space.


There's no space cities, huge stations, space factories, etc. yet. I think Mellian meant the basics, such as basic radio satellites.


A good parallel with this would be the colonization and development of the USA. North America was colonized in the 1600's. Then by the 1700's it had a decent economy, several dozen cities going, and some military.

However, it took until the 1900's to research and develop the technologies.

I am pretty sure that if the USA was colonized in the 1900's, it'd be able to shoot rockets and stuff within 100 years.

[Illuminatus]

Radio satelittes? Has sence. I thought she thought on SHL and OPTs. Anyway, can we get this started already

[Sovereign]

Actually, on Chiron, we'd already have the know-how to use modern technologies, so we wouldn't have to research them for 20, 30, 40 years all over again.

Another example...

Leonardo Da Vinci. He was considered a genius of all geniuses in the 1400's.

But we, in the 2000's are just as smart and knowledgable as Leonardo Da Vinci. Vinci researched how to build gliders, submarines, catapults, etc. but the common man in the 2000's knows the basics of these things.


I guess what I'm trying to say is... on Chiron, we already have the know-how to do things. Thus, we can colonize and modernize a lot faster than the USA was colonized and modernized from 1600 to 2000. The USA went from a simple colony to the only Superpower in the world in a mere 350 - 375 years.

That was with the technology research, and without the modern technology "know-how".

That said, 100 - 125 years sounds like a reasonable time for a faction with all the modern "know-how" stuff to build a nation, cities, mines, etc. then get ready for shooting radio and communication satellites into space.


Whew. A lot of typing.

Then again, debates are fun!

[Sovereign]

Yah I know Obstructor.

Git, Mellian! Schnell! Schnell!

[Mellian]

yes, i am keeping in mind of that quote, while also keeping in mind that they are not dealing with mid-20th to early 21st century technology or that they limited by a present day ever increasing inflationg capitalistic economy. also helps that they base their currency on energy, and that they can in time acquire all the resources they need on Chiron.

how about we started the story at the year 2250 instead, with the average faction population size of 100k-200k, which will be generally abstract in the story for story sake. the highest general planetary tech of level 6, not counting the Proginators who may be more advance yet behind infrastructure wise while quickly catching up.

keep in mind that, tech wise, there will also probably be some more tech trades and espionage happening than what the game seem to make seem, and that some of the techs in the game also signifies at what stage of infrastructure they are at, and that some techs are tied into to others.

like, Industrial Automation would definatly help free up a portion of the population to do other things while still increasing level of production.

-mellian

[Sovereign]

Originally posted by GeoModder
To have about a population of 1.000.000 after one century, every woman must give birth to 7-8 children each 25 years.

And that is without taking natural losses into account (death by accident, old age, war,...)

It IS feasible.

Suppose a woman decides to have a kid every year from 15 years old (when her womb becomes fertile) to around 40 - 45 (when her womb dies out)....

That would give us 20 - 30 children total.

However, maintaining such a huge family isn't feasible. Perhaps with the Hive due to its communal nature.


So we reduce that to maybe 10 kids over a lifetime. Then 3 or 4 of these kids die either during childhood, or during their adult years.

In addition, gene altering of sexes is possible today.

Men can produce far more children than women, due to the man being ths sperm donor while the female carries the infant and nurses him / her.

Thereotically, a faction could alter the sex of their kids to produce a population of this...

80% women, 20% men.

This would ensure that the women are always producing babies.

The women who are pregnant, or just gave birth could work academic, secretary, and bureaucratic jobs, while the men manage the hard tasks such as construction, mining, and farming.

Once the population levels out, women would be free to pursure whatever jobs or careers they desire.

Survival of the Human race overrides all social and cultural issues. After all, Humans don't want to become extinct.

[Sovereign]

Ok, I just finished calcuating population growth on a spreadsheet.

I set the # of years = 125. Years 2100 to 2225.

I entered Starting Population of 10,000.

I entered 5 possible annual population growth rates. 1%, 2%, 4%, 7%, and 10%.

Here's the results I got...

Year 1 = 10,000 people per faction

1% growth by Year 125 = 34,300 people

2% growth by Year 125 = 116,500 people

4% growth by Year 125 = 1,294,600 people

7% growth by Year 125 = 44,013,000 people

10% growth by Year 125 = 1,357,353,477 people!

1.3 billion people with a 10% growth in just 125 years. Hot Damn!

I think our factions should have somewhere between 2.5% to 4% population growth annually.

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Mellian
.

how about we started the story at the year 2250 instead, with the average faction population size of 100k-200k, which will be generally abstract in the story for story sake. the highest general planetary tech of level 6, not counting the Proginators who may be more advance yet behind infrastructure wise while quickly catching up.

keep in mind that, tech wise, there will also probably be some more tech trades and espionage happening than what the game seem to make seem, and that some of the techs in the game also signifies at what stage of infrastructure they are at, and that some techs are tied into to others.

like, Industrial Automation would definatly help free up a portion of the population to do other things while still increasing level of production.

-mellian

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Sovereign
Ok, I just finished calcuating population growth on a spreadsheet.

I set the # of years = 125. Years 2100 to 2225.

I entered Starting Population of 10,000.

I entered 5 possible annual population growth rates. 1%, 2%, 4%, 7%, and 10%.

Here's the results I got...

Year 1 = 10,000 people per faction

1% growth by Year 125 = 34,300 people

2% growth by Year 125 = 116,500 people

4% growth by Year 125 = 1,294,600 people

7% growth by Year 125 = 44,013,000 people

10% growth by Year 125 = 1,357,353,477 people!

1.3 billion people with a 10% growth in just 125 years. Hot Damn!

I think our factions should have somewhere between 2.5% to 4% population growth annually.

You now see why natural growth is not measured in percentages but rather by 1/1000s (forgot the english word).

[Mellian]

okay, here is the basic story settings draft:

-story starts on mission year 2250

-average population size per faction is between 200k to 500k

-general planetary tech would be at level six, with faction basicly started dabbling with orbital spaceflight, fusion power, magtubes, and Mind/Machine interface (which the cyborgs basicly already had for a while now).

impact (rail/gauss) weapony is the most common and basic weaponry on planet, while the most common military grade weapons would be Chaos (disruptors, bolt energy) and Missiles (indirect projectiles of various types).

silksteel is the most commonly used type of armor, while plasma and synth steels is still used in some areas, mainly by lower teched factions.

while now gradually, and quickly with some factions, being replaced by fusion, fission is still mostly used at the moment.

average faction been using cruisers for the last 50+ years and needlejets for the last 20+ years.


-basicly, a new era age in Chiron history is beginning, with a planetary economy really starting to form, and sense of 'globalism'.

-a long with the beginning of a new age, the aliens is becoming more and more of a threat to humanity on Chiron.

-time progression in the story would be that an author can go more than 1 story month than the latest dated story post, while they cannot go more than 3 story months before the latests dated post. so, it would be really encouraged that authors post the story date of when their story post happens in the story.

-faction placement, and base placement will be figured out soon after the story settings are agreed upon, followed by a the acceptance of a basic starting general timeline which can be filled as the story goes on.

-as for standard unit sizes...

100-1000 per Infantry Unit

12-15 per Rover/Crawler/HoverTank/etc Unit

12-15 per Needlejet/Chopper/Gravship/etc Unit

1 per Frigate/Destroyer/Cruiser/Battleship/Carrier/Submarine/etc Unit (those units are base on the Doctrine: Initiative tech)

1-5 per Naval Transport Unit

1-5 per Foil Unit

-Planetary Council as been established for like 50+ years now, and mainly just the faction leaders having their council in a virtual world council room thing. UN Charter is 'enforced', and present planetary governor is Lal for now, until someone calls for an election in the council in the story

okay, anything else i miss? is this agreeable?

-mellian

[Illuminatus]

No objections.

[Sovereign]

Good rough draft. I like.

Now I'm waiting to get cracking.

[GeneralTacticus]

No objections here.