"Chiron's One Ocean" turn tracking thread

[Darsnan]

This is the turn tracking thread for the SMAX PBEM "Chiron's One Ocean". Settings are as follows:

Mod: SManiAX (note: needed in order to play in this game)
Map: Large
Ocean: 85-90%
All Factions aquatized.
MCC disabled

Players in order are as follows:

Spartans: Kirov
Gaians: Geomodder
Hive: Maniac
Consciousness: Hobbes

AI's

Morganites
Drones
Believers

AI's are slightly tweaked.


First turn has been sent to Kirov.

Good Luck to All!


D

[Kirov]

Thanks Darsnan for your help.

Guys, regarding rules: I propose we used standard set, with no stockpile, no retro etc. We agreed also that:

1. Air units cannot bear weapons stronger than 4.
2. 4-1-5 submarines cannot be built by players (I guess we can allow to capture them).


Anyway, the first turn is done. I couldn't find Geo's addy, so I attach the file here.

My e-mail is: hlaskover AT gmail DOT com

I think it's a good idea for everyone to keep more or less detailed logs of the game, including tech paths and so on. I'm pretty sure it'll help Maniac develop his mod.

Good luck to everyone!

[GeoModder]

Sent to Maniac

You can post my turns to 'GeoModder AT telenet DOT be'

I'm already involved in an interesting start...

[GeoModder]

*bump*
Maniac, didn't you receive the turn?

[Maniac]

You can expect me to play turns relatively fast, except on Tuesdays.

I downloaded it yesterday, played it in the evening and am now about to send it further (if I find H0bbes e-mail, that is).

[Maniac]

It's years ago I last played a PBEM with H0bbes. H0bbes, are you Jeff Crocombe with e-mail jcrocombe at aardvark.net.au or is that someone else? Or has your e-mail changed in the intervening years?

Just to be safe I'll attach the turn here now.

My e-mail is peter_steenbeke at hotmail dot com

[Maniac]

I played the first turn!

Already a few observations:



Oh noes! I can no longer spy on other factions before I've met them!


My first research project is *shock* centauri Ecology. I'll research it slower than you guys though. While you guys profit from +2 Research due to your technocrat elite, I've immediately switched to a unitary police state giving me -1 Research. That's not beneficial for me - the +2 Police and +2 Support mean nothing to me this early in this game. But to roleplay the Hive well, I of course need to be a police state. Would it have been possible, I'd have made the Hive start automatically as a police state (and made them averse to unitary as well as federal democracies), but alas: there's no way to mod around the fact that factions always start with all the SE choices in the first column. So second best option: I've given the Hive 40 extra credits to immediately switch to police state.



Btw for you guys, don't forget that Unitary Democracies have -2 Police (so no garrisons for drone control required or possible) but do start with +1 Talent. Unfortunately the TALENT SE factor doesn't show up in the social engineering screen. So when in doubt, check the Datalinks which are entirely correct. well except for a typos then...

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Kirov
Thanks Darsnan for your help.

Also a thanks from me!

Originally posted by Kirov
We agreed also that:

1. Air units cannot bear weapons stronger than 4.
2. 4-1-5 submarines (and 8-3-6?) cannot be built by players (I guess we can allow to capture them).

Re air units, I thought we were still discussing this. What do you think of these arguments?

Originally posted by Maniac
Personally I do not consider it necessary to further reduce air power. It already has been weakened in SMAniaC. For example attack choppers only have five movement points before fusion power. Needlejets still have the same movement points, but they are available later than choppers, and you will have aerospace complexes and the AAA ability long before you can use needlejets, so it's definitely possible to build up your defenses. And to protect your ships in the middle of the ocean, you could use psi armour in combination with AAA to give a 1-to-2 advantage assuming equal morale.

For these reasons I do not believe air power needs to be further weakened, and that it is all right as it is. I could be wrong of course, but there's no way to find out unless we play SMAniaC as is!

Guys, regarding rules: I propose we used standard set, with no stockpile, no retro etc.

What's the standard ruleset you use?

For the record, here's the full list I usually propose if no one else does:

• Total freedom in Design Workshop, including crawler upgrade (upgrades anytime, during turn or on-field)
  OR perhaps
  Upgrades using the design workshop can only be done at the end of the turn. This to prevent upgrading eg a simple scout rover to the best modeal available and let it attack the same turn - makes it harder to defend
• Retro-engineering allowed, except for using the probe rover chassis before researching The Fission Reactor. Neither is it allowed to retro-engineer a land former using the sea former before having researched Centauri Ecology. In short, retro-engineering basic unit types is not allowed.
• Social Engineering settings may be changed only once per turn. No “quickie” changing.
  
• Stockpiling in Build Queues allowed at any time
• Multiple drops or orbital insertions using the right-click menu is forbidden. So is airdropping from outside a base/airbase, or after having moved (except on a magtube) using the same method.
• Base growth through Colony Pods - can be used to increase a base size up to the applicable pre-facility limit, but cannot be used to breach that limit without the facility being built.
• Psi (or any other) units cannot be assigned multiple waypoint patrol routes (to avoid instant demon boil bug)
• It is not allowed to set the home base (Control-h) for a unit to be the base of another faction when the diplomatic stance is pact. The unit will then require no support from either faction.
• No base trading with the AI. Extortion and gifting is allowed.
• It is not allowed to trade technology to AIs in exchange for credits if as a result the AI's energy reserves would go into the negative.
• Cannot change an infiltrated faction's workers to specialists, for example by using the F4 screen (or the bases icon of the F2 screen)
• Transparent Commlink Logs - It is forbidden for any player, whether playing the turn or just browsing the .sav, to open a .sav file (current or past) with a text reader program (eg word, wordperfect, notepad, etc etc) as the in-game commlink exchanges are embedded in text in the .sav file and can be read by anyone. For that reason, and also to keep the save file size low, it's highly recommended to do all private communications per e-mail.
• It is forbidded for any player, whether playing the turn or just browsing any gamesave, to select left hand menu, then Game, then Resign. If hit accidentally, then immediately select the "No! Get back in there and fight" option. Selecting the "yes, time to slink away in shame" option triggers the game end scores and map expansion from the start (thereby revealing the start locations and limits of expansion of all seven factions).
• No communications without the correct commlink.
• Council notification - immediate broadcast to all players (Post in the thread and e-mail to all immediately by player who has called elections, citing candidates and votes. After each player's turn, post in the thread the running totals)
• If an aggressive probe action (anything except infiltration) is used on a faction you have a truce, treaty or pact with, you must select 'Declare Vendetta' in the dialog box that appears afterwards, and notify the victim of your transgression, unless you have received permission in advance. No notification is required in other cases.
• Demanding withdrawal to a human player through the menus rather than by negotiation is prohibited.
• Bribing (or accepting bribes) for votes through the diplomatic channel box by clicking on the human faction leader's picture is prohibited (must be conducted by diplo message or e-mail).
• Multiple reloading of the game to try for different effects is forbidden. If a reload is necessary because of a game crash etc., an explanation should be posted to the turn administration thread.
• This bug is not allowed: Normally, a base must have an Aerospace Complex to be able to build orbital facilities. However, if an Aerospace Complex is the item currently being built, then orbital facilities can be added to the build queue. If production is switched to something other than the Aerospace Complex, the orbital facilities remain in the build queue and will be built without the need for an Aerospace Complex.
• This bug is not allowed: On the turn a terraformer completes its terraforming task, its "flag" will be grayed out indicating that it has moved. Clicking on and activating the terraformer will allow a new terraforming command to be issued to the terraformer with the correct number of turns to completion displayed. Clicking on and activating the terraformer again, cancelling its new orders; at this point, the terraformer will have regained one movement point. Using the more advanced technique of this bug is also disallowed.
• It's not allowed to perform probe actions on a base that from one faction revolted to another human faction, unless the new owner decides and announces to keep the base. If the faction doesn't want the base that revolted to them, they have to gift it to an AI of their choice directly after receiving it if possible. If not possible, they have to starve the base and build a colony pod in order to destroy it, again as soon as possible (without hurrying). While disassembling the base, the new owner has the right though to sell off any facilities present in the base.
• It is not allowed to mind control with standard probe teams units or bases of any faction that runs a +3 or higher SE Probe rating.
• Due to the probe rollover bug, an enhanced probe team mind controlling a unit of a faction running +3 or higher Probe SE, would only have to pay half the credits it would have had to pay without the bug. To compensate for that bug, the probing faction needs to get rid of a sum of credits equal to the probe cost. This can be done by for example significantly overpaying for a hurry order, meaning the credits are wasted.
• It is not allowed to locate bases in unexplored tiles.
• You can't ask an AI to stop the war with a human, unless you have permission of that human.

[H0bbes]

2102 to Kirov.

[H0bbes]

Maniac, that email is correct.

[H0bbes]

Originally posted by Maniac

Stockpiling in Build Queues allowed at any time

I vote to allow stockpiling. I like it & its allowed in most of my other games.

Originally posted by Maniac

It is not allowed to trade technology to AIs in exchange for credits if as a result the AI's energy reserves would go into the negative.

Is this really policeable? How will I know if this will occur in a faction I'm not pacted with or have infiltrated?

Originally posted by Maniac

It's not allowed to perform probe actions on a base that from one faction revolted to another human faction, unless the new owner decides and announces to keep the base. If the faction doesn't want the base that revolted to them, they have to gift it to an AI of their choice directly after receiving it if possible. If not possible, they have to starve the base and build a colony pod in order to destroy it, again as soon as possible (without hurrying). While disassembling the base, the new owner has the right though to sell off any facilities present in the base.

???? What the?

Originally posted by Maniac

Due to the probe rollover bug, an enhanced probe team mind controlling a unit of a faction running +3 or higher Probe SE, would only have to pay half the credits it would have had to pay without the bug. To compensate for that bug, the probing faction needs to get rid of a sum of credits equal to the probe cost. This can be done by for example significantly overpaying for a hurry order, meaning the credits are wasted.

???? What the?

Originally posted by Maniac

You can't ask an AI to stop the war with a human, unless you have permission of that human.

Why on earth not?

There is such a thing as too many rules. I've never even heard of many of these.

Hobbes

[Maniac]

Originally posted by H0bbes
Is this really policeable? How will I know if this will occur in a faction I'm not pacted with or have infiltrated?

To the question if it's policeable. Most rules aren't. We'll just have to trust each other.
The situation where this bug could be most abused is when you have a submissive AI pact partner. Then you could first extort all his money and only then sell all your technology to him or her, creating 25c per tech out of thin air. In that situation you are of course aware of the credit reserves of the AI.

???? What the? [re the base revolt rule]

This follows out of a discussion on CGN. People were discussing a tactic of letting one of your bases consciously revolt to another human player, so that you could then constantly probe rape the defenseless base in the middle of your territory. Since there is no way to refuse a base that wants to revolt to you, this seems like the next best solution for this rather lame and game-mechanic-exploiting tactic.

???? What the? [re the probe rollover rule]

This follows from the discussion before ACDG3 about the probe rollover bug. Are you aware of that bug?
The rule sounds complex I know.

Edit: Since no one is playing the Angels or Believers, I think this rule wouldn't have to be used anyway.

Why on earth not?

This follows from a PBEM game where someone asked an AI faction to sign a treaty with GeoModder. GeoModder wanted to continue the war though.
Without this rule GeoModder would have been forced to redeclare war the turn after a treaty was signed without his will (it's an automatic game mechanic meant to sign treaties between AIs), and his reputation would've been damaged.
It seems logical to me treaties are only signed when both parties involved want it.

There is such a thing as too many rules. I've never even heard of many of these.

Most rules speak for themselves of course. It's just an all-inclusive list compiled for the ACDG.

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Maniac
This follows from a PBEM game where someone asked an AI faction to sign a treaty with GeoModder. GeoModder wanted to continue the war though.
Without this rule GeoModder would have been forced to redeclare war the turn after a treaty was signed without his will (it's an automatic game mechanic meant to sign treaties between AIs), and his reputation would've been damaged.
It seems logical to me treaties are only signed when both parties involved want it.

I've found a workaround already without taking a hit on my reputation. Simply place impossible demands.

[Kirov]

on to Geo.

[GeoModder]

Forwarded!
And I was lucky...