[C4:AC] Official C4-->SMAC Thread - Prelude to a Mod

[Mart]

Re: And so it begins....

Originally posted by Darsnan
... I already have picked up a book on C++ and Python coding btw....

Having some experience as self-taught amateuer programmer, I would recommend also acquiring compilers for C++ and Python.
Python should not be a problem, coz I think it is kinda free for all? And I recall somewhere I have heard about a free C++ compiler.
This is very helping to actually see what the code you write does. Otherwise, only reading will not give you any good experience. But maybe you already did that, what I say here.

Also, I could find this free software again, if anyone would be interested

[Blake]

Interesting. I dunno if I'll get into Civ4 in a big way but I still love SMAC, altough it's starting to feel a bit like a necrophiliac sort of love. You know?

Anyway I know C++ pretty well and have a rudimentary understanding of XML (enough to edit it, anyway), I plan to learn Python since there are some tools I use that use python scripts and so I'm going to need to learn it sooner or later...

I saw someone ask about 3D models, I'd like to point out that Blender is one incredible piece of modelling software and it's been improved quite a lot since being opensourced. It runs great on a great many platforms, is a tiny download (like 6mb) and is absolutely free.
It's daunting at first but there are some good guides on the web and the online manual is comprehensive. I'm currently learning to use Blender and I'm impressed by how easy to use and intuitive it is after learning some of the basic controls, and can make some pretty cool stuff. (And I have no artistic tendancies )

So if you want to contribute in a technical function and have some free time it's worth considering learning Blender. Ofcourse I don't know what kind of model formats Civ4 will use or how it will work, but due to the flexibility and open nature of Blender there will doubtlessly be suitable exporters available soon after C4 release.

I'm not going to commit seriously to programming or graphics creation at this stage. You can put me under "Notoriously unreliable people who claim they're going to do something maybe". Or whatever .

edit: To further elaborate Blender can be used to both export 3D models and also render models, highly detailed scenes and animations for 2D graphics purposes.

[Mart]

I do not know, if I state here something, that already has been considered, but looking through the posts, I have not found it. So what I would propose as a distinct step in creation of this mod and also one of the first:

Determine what kind of changes to the game Civ4 are possible.

So far, before the release we have heard description "very powerful modding capabilities". I think this has to be specifically determined. What can we change? How far can we change something? If a mod is going to be created for an existing game engine (civ4) the game engine should be first understood. What capabilities it has, what restrictions.

So right after the release of the game civ4, there should be someone or several people digging into the civ4 game engine itself to get to know the best as they can.

[MarkG]

greeting everyone!

we think the idea of a smac mod is great and we'd love to support the cause in the following ways:

1) civgroup so participating members can publicize the mod as well as news posting indepedent from main apolyton news

2) forum under (properly renamed) AC-Creation forum

3) wiki hosting under smac.civilization4.net

let us know how this sounds

[Illuminatus]

Sold?

[Senethro]

MarkG: The offer to host both a forum and a wiki is extremely generous and I'm sure there'd be no dissent if I said we'd accept as is.

However, I think I should explain more fully my reasons for this mod being more appropriate in the Civ4 section rather than the AC one.

Although its being spearheaded by the residents of the SMAC forums this mod is not going to succeed except as part of the Civ4 community. As Civ4's first total conversion* I'm hoping we'll be able to attract people who haven't even played SMAC as this mod will be breaking new ground and a trial for pushing Civ4s moddability as far as it can go. As the finished product is intended to be moddable itself, perhaps into other sci-fi universes. Its maybe not appropriate for it to be in the SMAC forums grouping.

In addition, is the AC-Creation really redundant just yet? I made a joke post about March claiming squatters rights on the whole thing as it was being disused but its perked up a lot since then, and not just with bumpings of old threads.

However as 'poly is your turf, where the forum goes is wherever you find tidiest on the forum view . I hope that I've made my points though.


*"Civ4s first total conversion!" - Possible working sub-title Darsnan?

[Illuminatus]

In addition, is the AC-Creation really redundant just yet?

No, it just has periods of decreased activity. If people would change default settings from view last ten days, they would actually see how many mods are there (Aldebaran, SManiAC, Cold War, etc.)

[Gavin Berchler]

Mark, Love the idea. Set it up for us asap! My preference is also with mediawiki, please also ensure that the forum will allow for a private area for team members to chat.

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Senethro
However, I think I should explain more fully my reasons for this mod being more appropriate in the Civ4 section rather than the AC one.

we're suggesting the AC-Creation because
1) it's an existing forum with not-high traffic and we've found over the years that it's best to have less high-traffic forums rather than more low-traffic ones
2) it's the "physical area" for the people participating and being interested in the mod
3) increased traffic in the ac-creation forum could create a renewed interest in smac modding

as for creating interest in non-smac people, this will be achieved through
1) posting of major mod news in the civ4 section and more frequent ("smaller") news in the civgroup news page
2) participants carrying the smacmod civgroup icon
3) linking to smac.civilization4.net from all places our hosted sites linked from (like the bottom of all forums pages)

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Gavin Berchler
please also ensure that the forum will allow for a private area for team members to chat.

what's the need for a private area on a public project?

[Kataphraktoi]

what's the need for a private area on a public project?

up further in the post,i had voiced concerns that non smac community members may possibly dilute the project.i am not positive on that however. mainly to shield things from all the civ4 new players that come streaming in off google. just looking at all the angles here

clarification: my idea of a private wiki would be open for all to read,but only a list of modders would have editing access

we're suggesting the AC-Creation because
1) it's an existing forum with not-high traffic and we've found over the years that it's best to have less high-traffic forums rather than more low-traffic ones
2) it's the "physical area" for the people participating and being interested in the mod
3) increased traffic in the ac-creation forum could create a renewed interest in smac modding

as for creating interest in non-smac people, this will be achieved through
1) posting of major mod news in the civ4 section and more frequent ("smaller") news in the civgroup news page
2) participants carrying the smacmod civgroup icon
3) linking to smac.civilization4.net from all places our hosted sites linked from (like the bottom of all forums pages)

sounds good to me

MarkG: The offer to host both a forum and a wiki is extremely generous and I'm sure there'd be no dissent if I said we'd accept as is.

[Gavin Berchler]

as with everything, its important to have stability and a central place for everyone to work in. If we have an open area there is a danger of the whole internet chiming in, which will reduce the ability of the team to work uninteruppted. As long as you have an open area where the team can post open positions, and open tasks then other people will have the time to join in. The majority of forum should be open to the public but part should be for team members only.

[Senethro]

Originally posted by MarkG

we're suggesting the AC-Creation because
-Snip!-

Thanks for explaining your reasoning and for the good suggestions too!



Cata & Gavin.
You guys worry too much. I think we should be hoping for the whole internet pouring in and just chipping in their own small piece like Blake. A forum is going to be a mess regardless and theres only so much things like stickied index threads can do. Hence, the wiki.

However, does anyone have any suggestions for organising the creation forum? Perhaps the following sticked threads:

Mission statement and memberlist (locked, edited by illu)
Forum rules and FAQs (First 5 posts reserved, updates edited in)
Index of all useful threads created. (every link edited into first 5 posts)

Unsticked threads might include Signing up thread and Non-Members Comments/suggestions thread.


Finally, does anyone have a catchy name for our project or shall we just go with SMACmod?

[Gavin Berchler]

Sonethro, I won't tell you I told you so..... Try the open method, we tried loads of times on the other mod we did. Doesn't work...

[Kataphraktoi]

Cata & Gavin.
You guys worry too much. I think we should be hoping for the whole internet pouring in and just chipping in their own small piece like Blake. A forum is going to be a mess regardless and theres only so much things like stickied index threads can do. Hence, the wiki.

but we,or maybe just me,dont want the whole internet pouring in on this.

if we are going for a SMAC feel,then our mission is clearly defined. opensource game devolopment,and etc, dont ussualy have open door creating sessions AFAIK.

the fact is,some people like ruining or hindering what others create. i have experianced this,its addictive,and theres a lot of people that do it.

consider internet explorer. it has great power in activex,but your system is so open to attack that the tradeoff isnt worth it. why? besides corporate spyware,people enjoy making viruses and creating mayhem. and there is so much stuff out there,any system that uses IE is considered compromised IMO

for an example close to home,my father likes civ3. i dont know why. he thinks crawlers and stuff,completing SP in 1 turn,is somehow not good.same with actually checking bases every turn,or every 10 turns even. its the difference between go(smac,unsolvable) and chess(civ3,solvable) depth wise. if enough people got onbourd that thought like that,i would be extremely saddened to watch everything i like about smac lost