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1-nutrient requirement makes for dynamic game!

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  • 1-nutrient requirement makes for dynamic game!

    I was messing around with alpha.txt the other day, and I tried changing the nutrient requirement for feeding citiznes from 2 to 1. Whoa, did that alter gameplay! Interestingly, I had disabled pop-booming, except through GAs, by changing some SE settings as well. And even so, the game just flew. And it seemed like the AI liked it as well. The AI became much more tactically aggressive, which is badly needed in SMAC. Usually, the AI is too strategically aggressive, but not tactically aggressive enough. But in this game the AI was able to mount huge invasions against other AI factions. And then those AI factions were able to effectively counter-attack and drive into the flank of the AI invasion, reversing the match. I hadn't seen anything like that before. It was fun to watch.
    Civ IV is digital crack. If you are a college student in the middle of the semester, don't touch it with a 10-foot pole. I'm serious.

  • #2
    Do you have your files laying around, I might get some hour to spend on this
    What do I care about your suffering? Pain, even agony, is no more than information before the senses, data fed to the computer of the mind. The lesson is simple: you have received the information, now act on it. Take control of the input and you shall become master of the output.

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    • #3
      What I find this might do to a normal SMAX game is the following:

      First of all, it places a HUGE degree of importance in discovering Hab techs, as you're going to hit your hab limits very, very early without a concerted effort to keep your population spread out.

      Second, I don't know that it really makes the AI any better, except that it does mitigate the AI's atrocious terraforming habits somewhat. Nevertheless, a skilled player who can lay down carpet forests everywhere will still have little trouble outgrowing and outproducing the AI, who will be likely relying on farms and wasting tons of nutrients bouncing against a habitation cap.

      Also, this change does nothing to address the AI's propensity to overproduce units and throttle its support, while completely failing to use crawlers or advanced terraforming. Just for fun, try building condenser/farms and boreholes in a submissive's territory, then transfer control of a couple formers to them. See how soon the AI doggedly paves over your work and puts up it's squalid little farm/solars everywhere.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by CEO Aaron
        What I find this might do to a normal SMAX game is the following:

        First of all, it places a HUGE degree of importance in discovering Hab techs, as you're going to hit your hab limits very, very early without a concerted effort to keep your population spread out.

        Second, I don't know that it really makes the AI any better, except that it does mitigate the AI's atrocious terraforming habits somewhat. Nevertheless, a skilled player who can lay down carpet forests everywhere will still have little trouble outgrowing and outproducing the AI, who will be likely relying on farms and wasting tons of nutrients bouncing against a habitation cap.

        Also, this change does nothing to address the AI's propensity to overproduce units and throttle its support, while completely failing to use crawlers or advanced terraforming. Just for fun, try building condenser/farms and boreholes in a submissive's territory, then transfer control of a couple formers to them. See how soon the AI doggedly paves over your work and puts up it's squalid little farm/solars everywhere.
        If what Zeiter is saying is true though, then it DOES affect thigns that are not immediately related to terraforming. Your making the assumption that the AI is a logical system, but its possible that the logic underneath is buggy and flawed too. Perhaps at one time military units took away from population and the AI was desinged to hold back until it had high growth, thus causing the AI to play better in wars from extrimely low growth requirements.

        Perhaps otehr unexpected consequences will be found from otehr seemingly inconsequential changes.

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        • #5
          If what Zeiter is saying is true though, then it DOES affect thigns that are not immediately related to terraforming.
          Correct. I have a suspicion that the AI is willing to take more tactical risks when it is in an easier situation with regards to nutrients and infrastructure in general.

          Also, I should also clarify that I had crawlers disabled as well.
          Civ IV is digital crack. If you are a college student in the middle of the semester, don't touch it with a 10-foot pole. I'm serious.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Zeiter


            Correct. I have a suspicion that the AI is willing to take more tactical risks when it is in an easier situation with regards to nutrients and infrastructure in general.

            Also, I should also clarify that I had crawlers disabled as well.
            Would this mean if you give the AI some terraformes to start with the could become more aggresive because better starting position? Mayby give them 2 independet trance superformers. Would be nice to see what that would do for a single player game.
            What do I care about your suffering? Pain, even agony, is no more than information before the senses, data fed to the computer of the mind. The lesson is simple: you have received the information, now act on it. Take control of the input and you shall become master of the output.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by waab


              Would this mean if you give the AI some terraformes to start with the could become more aggresive because better starting position? Mayby give them 2 independet trance superformers. Would be nice to see what that would do for a single player game.
              Not much given they can't terraform properly, that's why most people give the AI bonus sats instead to relieve the problem of nut/min/energy shortages due to rubbish terraforming.
              Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendant, and to embrace them is to acheive enlightenment.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Lazerus


                Not much given they can't terraform properly, that's why most people give the AI bonus sats instead to relieve the problem of nut/min/energy shortages due to rubbish terraforming.
                Thought that problem was because I never have seen them build any terraformers (or atleast not in enough numbers).
                What do I care about your suffering? Pain, even agony, is no more than information before the senses, data fed to the computer of the mind. The lesson is simple: you have received the information, now act on it. Take control of the input and you shall become master of the output.

                Comment


                • #9
                  try giving the ai free tree farms to start instead, the ai will actually plant forests (espe3cially gaia), and will help compensate for them not using condensors

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                  • #10
                    Yeah i've seen that work well
                    Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendant, and to embrace them is to acheive enlightenment.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Xian

                      If what Zeiter is saying is true though, then it DOES affect thigns that are not immediately related to terraforming. Your making the assumption that the AI is a logical system, but its possible that the logic underneath is buggy and flawed too. Perhaps at one time military units took away from population and the AI was desinged to hold back until it had high growth, thus causing the AI to play better in wars from extrimely low growth requirements.

                      Perhaps other unexpected consequences will be found from other seemingly inconsequential changes.
                      UPDATE 7/28:^^^Thats odd, the sever software won't allow me to delete this, why?

                      It was probably an issue with my browser, its been acting up lately
                      Last edited by Xian; June 28, 2006, 22:54.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Xian

                        Huh-- Was there a point in quoting yourself ?
                        You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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                        • #13
                          Emphasis?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CEO Aaron
                            Emphasis?

                            You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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                            • #15
                              Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendant, and to embrace them is to acheive enlightenment.

                              Comment

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