Yes, the Pirate's positioning does seem odd. I've tried to start several Pirate games recently and can never get the pod results that dmm can. I'm also not convinced that that rush start can be carried into the midgame. Needs 70 more turns of play to convince me.
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Free Drones: the most powerful faction?
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The pirates tend to be overrated by players who only play by themselves wit the AI, which we all know is absolutely atrocious. However what people don't realize is that the AI is not universally atrocious - it does some things worse than others
Different factions are played by the AI worse than human players in DIFFERENT degrees. Ie Morgan is played by the AI worse than a human much more so than the Hive.
In particular the Hive and the Pirates tend to be ridiculously overrated by players who dont play MP, and the Uni and Morganites underrated.
In the majority of circumstances, with normal luck for starting territory and so on, the Drones will be the best faction in the game, mainly because Industry is the most important single factor. Obviously you can think of certain circumstances that will cripple them because of technology - but you can come up with circumstances that cripple for MOST other factions in the game too.
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Originally posted by rsfarrell
No, but you can blow up the crawlers, outrun Zak to the VW, and steal the base with the CBA.
All building factions have an advantage before the factions come into contact. Whether the turn advantage you generate in that time is enough to make you come out on top is, of course, the name of the game. You aren't going to be building the CF and the CBA before you have to deal with probe attacks on the one hand and momentum players on the other.
And steal the base with CBA?? Try it when CBA is at HQ. Or better still, in a non-coastal base 2 squares in land from HQ. I've seen situations where SP bases where completely out of reach of probes, unless you win a war anyway.
Seriously, I thought we were talking MP now. You don't just come to Zak for him to roll over and give all his techs away.
BTW, nice sig. Been reading Kurt Vonnegut?
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Originally posted by Xian
In the majority of circumstances, with normal luck for starting territory and so on, the Drones will be the best faction in the game, mainly because Industry is the most important single factor. Obviously you can think of certain circumstances that will cripple them because of technology - but you can come up with circumstances that cripple for MOST other factions in the game too.
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Pirates aren't that bad really. D: Flex is a wonderful inital tech to have and here is why
Go inland ASAP. Best means I have found is simply this.
Move sea colony pods next to land mass. Likely two separate land masses. First build should be infantry transport. 10 free mins and 3 minerals allows the transport to be built in 4 turns. Next build is a land colony pod. Infantry transport can move directly from the base to land. If a pod is within base radii pop it with the transport in hopes of an AA. (It will likely always be a good outcome if within base radii). By turn 5 you are working to produce land bound pods and units.
As soon as you've researched Centauri Ecology (formers) you'll likely want to make these as well and send them land side. (If your lucky or have taken the time to scout around a bit you might have the monsoon jungle as your own - This might be the real hidden strength of the pirates)
Initially as you have those two sea colonies to yourself and no threats from other factions I tend to leave them -gasp!!! unprotected and ungarisoned. All that you need fear is the wandereing sea lurks which normally don't show for the first 20-30 turns. Prior to size 2 staple them, and then later on add the garison/rec commons etc.
Stay away from building additional sea colony pods until you've gotten a core continent or two to your own. They are just too mineral intensive in the early game to warrant wasting valuable early turns."Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter
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While I'm in basic agreement with you, Senethro, I think their idea is that by migrating to land asap, you mitigate the early game drawbacks of life at sea while being able to scour the map for freebie pods.
One reason I find the pirates to be so irritating is that I habitually play on maps with abundant native life. With the seas so choked with fungus and worms, it's really only a matter of time before my defenseless foils are eaten, whether by randomly spawning natives, or by an IOD spawned from a remote, fungus-bound pod. Such factors will severely curtail the mobility and freedom that the supporters of Sven claim to enjoy.
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update
the year is 2176
max econ specialists: 229 ec turn/10 lab turns
max lab specialists: ~120 ec turn/6 lab turns
SP's:
WP
HGP
PTS
PEG
I've been using zak as a free r and d lab, but I messed up and he killed 2 of my cps, so that's over
My goal right now is fusion for the engineers, reactor, etc.Attached Files
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Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Pirates aren't that bad really. D: Flex is a wonderful inital tech to have and here is why
You've got two land transports that aid in early terraforming time (eliminates former move turns) and it gets you land bound and setting your land colony pods turns sooner (eliminating costly land pod moves).
Stay away from building additional sea colony pods until you've gotten a core continent or two to your own. They are just too mineral intensive in the early game to warrant wasting valuable early turns.
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Originally posted by Senethro
Yes, the Pirate's positioning does seem odd. I've tried to start several Pirate games recently and can never get the pod results that dmm can. I'm also not convinced that that rush start can be carried into the midgame. Needs 70 more turns of play to convince me.
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Originally posted by Setroc
I know every player has their own perspective and strengths, but Pirates being considered so powerful seems ludicrous to me. The growth penalty is notoriously difficult to overcome in terms of turn advantage. -1 efficiency is a pain. And to top it all off, sea formers and sea CPs cost way too much. I wouldn't even put them up with Drones if you could choose your own pod results.
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Originally posted by Xian
The pirates tend to be overrated by players who only play by themselves wit the AI, which we all know is absolutely atrocious. However what people don't realize is that the AI is not universally atrocious - it does some things worse than others
Different factions are played by the AI worse than human players in DIFFERENT degrees. Ie Morgan is played by the AI worse than a human much more so than the Hive.
In particular the Hive and the Pirates tend to be ridiculously overrated by players who dont play MP, and the Uni and Morganites underrated.
In the majority of circumstances, with normal luck for starting territory and so on, the Drones will be the best faction in the game, mainly because Industry is the most important single factor. Obviously you can think of certain circumstances that will cripple them because of technology - but you can come up with circumstances that cripple for MOST other factions in the game too.
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Eh, I suppose its good but you still haven't reached the stage of a game where some factions will have popboomed to size 14. So you're fast and will enter the midgame well but I think you'll lose steam quickly.
I've also tried to start Pirate games but even with more transports on a larger world with more pods to pop I haven't been able to replicate your lucky results.
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Originally posted by Senethro
Eh, I suppose its good but you still haven't reached the stage of a game where some factions will have popboomed to size 14. So you're fast and will enter the midgame well but I think you'll lose steam quickly.
I've also tried to start Pirate games but even with more transports on a larger world with more pods to pop I haven't been able to replicate your lucky results.
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