Free Drones: the most powerful faction?

[fed1943]

The faction I feel more confortable with: Uni;
The faction I should choose: Gaian (my weakest);
The faction put me in: any.

Best regards,

[Lazerus]

Originally posted by Frankychan


Good to see you again, bro.

Still keeping the order

We're having an all Hive PBEM over in the multiplayer, go Yang ! lol

[CEO Aaron]

Originally posted by rsfarrell
What about Lal?

* Inside track on the government (free infiltration!)

* Can easily pop-boom or go +1 per square (Yang has problems with both, so I have a hard time seeing him on top)

* Larger bases (9/7 = 128% productivity in pre-Hab bases)

* Extra Talents (post-hab, enjoys the equiv. of FOUR HGPs. What other faction bonus gives you the equivilent of a *****n' SP four times over?

I like to describe Lal as the vanilla faction. His bonuses are the most innocuous, and in most cases, don't give you anything you couldn't get with a little effort anyway.

Free Infiltration? Meh. How hard is it to build a probe team and use it?

Easy Pop Booming? That would mean something if half the factions in the game didn't have the same advantage, and others besides.

Larger Bases? While nice, most players will point out that having a large number of modest bases is much stronger than having a handful of big ones.

Extra Talents: THIS is the one true advantage of Lal, namely that he can get in Free Market early and stay there longer, allowing a nice thin expansion while getting by with minimal drone control facilities.

Lal's other big advantage is double votes. With anything remotely approaching population parity, Lal will have a lock on the Planetary Governorship, with the trade penalty that it provides. Of course, to make dividends on that advantage, you need trading partners, so be prepared to conquer yourself a submissive or two, go Free Market, and watch the credits roll in.

[Lazerus]

Yeah overall abit of extra energy from the council (assuming people don't conspire against you) doesn't really compare to the industry bonus of drones/hive or the research bonus of uni.

[dfy]

Originally posted by Net Warrior
CEO Aaron & Ogie Oglethorpe are correct. I was originally responding to a thread about pop booming when I remarked about the power of the Free Drones. What I should have said is that if the Drones survive to the stage where they can pop boom then they become very dangerous. And, of course, survival for them is much more likely the larger the map. Since I always play on huge maps I'm guilty of sloppy thinking in my previous post.

But for the same reason, the Research/Energy Factions (esp. Zak and Morgan) should be even stronger than Domai on huge maps, no? If left alone long enough, Zak will have an overwhelming tech lead over Domai. I can't really understand why many of you consider industry superior to research, but then again, I'm only playing for fun, so my opinion is not worth very much in that case. I'd really like to hear specific reasons for the superiority of industry though .

[Chaos Theory]

Originally posted by dfy
I'd really like to hear specific reasons for the superiority of industry though .

Supply crawlers.

[Net Warrior]

Originally posted by dfy
But for the same reason, the Research/Energy Factions (esp. Zak and Morgan) should be even stronger than Domai on huge maps, no? If left alone long enough, Zak will have an overwhelming tech lead over Domai. I can't really understand why many of you consider industry superior to research,...

It’s not just an Industry superiority, it’s more. Domai’s inherent weakness is his –2 research. He gets around that by getting to FM ASAP since his bases can be fully productive at size 2 thanks to his inherent –1 drone per base. Zak stumbles badly here due to his extra drone per base. Next, after IA and massive rapid crawlers construction, Domai aims to pop boom ASAP so that he can get size 5 bases for the all important specialists who give him another critical research boost. Morgan stumbles badly here since in general his bases stall at size 4 and then again at size 11 so he takes more time to get specialists and doesn’t get as many as Domai when he’s done booming.

[Senethro]

And lets not forget that a lot of research comes from facilities, which a FMing Domai can hurry for 20% cheaper than anyone else.

[rsfarrell]

Originally posted by CEO Aaron


I like to describe Lal as the vanilla faction. His bonuses are the most innocuous, and in most cases, don't give you anything you couldn't get with a little effort anyway.

Free Infiltration? Meh. How hard is it to build a probe team and use it?

Depends what kind of a probe defense the other parties are running.

Easy Pop Booming? That would mean something if half the factions in the game didn't have the same advantage, and others besides.

As I said, I was contrasting Lal with Yang. Also, I said Pop Booms and +1 per square (easily) which excludes many of the other factions in the game (though not all, by any means). Excluding aliens, the Drones, Uni, PKs, Angels, Believers, and Spartans can do both. Of those, Zak will have severe drone problems, and the Angel's police rating means their infrastructure has to preceed a pop-boom. I would accordingly rate Lal, the Drones, the Believers, and the Spartans, in no particular order, as the most powerful on a huge map.

Larger Bases? While nice, most players will point out that having a large number of modest bases is much stronger than having a handful of big ones.

The more bases you have, the more bases you have to defend, the greater your energy losses to inefficiency, and the greater the cost of infrastructure builds relative to your empire (30 size 7 bases spend 30% more minerals than a similiar population of size 9 bases to get a build throughout the empire.)

I know a lot of people see Lal as bland, but I don't. You can compare SMAC to chess -- your choice of faction is like your choice of opening. Some openings commit you to a particular plan, while others do not. As black in the French you are going to line up against white's d4 pawn; in a King's gambit white and black play for a quick mate. On the other hand, a King's Indian or a Semi-Slav can lead to almost anything, depending on how the players handle it.

Lal is not a very committal faction. His bonuses don't force you down a particular path -- they don't chose your strategy for you. In my view, though, he's one of the top two or three human factions on a huge map.

[Lazerus]

Zaks drone problems are quite easy to handle for experienced uni players.
The Angels police penalty hardler matters once they're running FM they will be in exactly the same position as every other faction running FM and even whilst booming they're only going to be missing at most 1 policed drone.
Believers have the same -2 research as the drones but nothing to compare to the drones +2 industry which makes up for it.
Spartans negative industry is the worst SE in the game imo

The more bases you have, the more bases you have to defend, the greater your energy losses to inefficiency, and the greater the cost of infrastructure builds relative to your empire (30 size 7 bases spend 30% more minerals than a similiar population of size 9 bases to get a build throughout the empire.)

More bases also allows you more places to attack from, more squares worked, doesn't place all your eggs in one basket etc. Specialists counter efficiency loss, hence why the Hive can be sprawled across 1/3 of a huge map and still be researching merrily. Having to build some more facilities for the Drones isn't really a challenge; their crawlers will be coming so fast and cheap that once bulked up they'll be producing more facilities faster then Lal.

Not being forced to play a particular way might show that you don't have any crippling weaknesses but also shows that you don't really have any strengths to play to.

[rsfarrell]

The latter statement is not sensible; however, the ones which preceed it are, and certainly suggest the advantages of an industry bonus in PBEM games.

Interesting stuff.

[Frankychan]

Originally posted by rsfarrell
The latter statement is not sensible; however, the ones which preceed it are, and certainly suggest the advantages of an industry bonus in PBEM games.

Interesting stuff.

What are ya talking aboot? Laz broke it down to the bare bones how one can overcome a factions weakness.

[rsfarrell]

Flexibility does not connotate a lack of distinctive strengths. That assertion doesn't make sense.

You seem to have skipped over the rest of my post, where I credit Laz for making good points about strategy.

[Kataphraktoi]

Dont forgot lals 200% votes bonus...huge for getting infiltration. Id rather have infil and 10 bases than no infil and 20 bases.

[rsfarrell]

Good point . . . if auto-infiltration weren't powerful, why would you see the Empath Guild disabled in so many PBEMs?