Treatise on Hurrying

[Kataphraktoi]

Then what is it? Or is it something top secret?

I cant remember the details now, and i didnt post them in our forum(only mentioned that i did it). basicly i just used the workshop to change the production of a certain unit type to another unit type and avoided the mineral loss along the way. [i had underrushed a unit and was faced with either losing turns and building it anyway or settling for a weaker unit-i improvised instead)

These two events and above all the lack of cooperation between the other factions (or lack of much diplomacy in general) are IMHO the three most important foundations for the Spartan success.

Or lack of skilled play at all, perhaps. I find it hard to imagine a good player being unable to outperform anyobdy in acdg3 in a SP game. people have transcended before the date we are currently at. the econ in general seems to be a bit off-i have a SP game as gaians 2170 with 160+ crawlers. there are hardly any crawlers in acdg3-why?

i also blame lethargy. the morganite turnplayer simply failed to react when faced with your raiding force. your force of 4 rovers should and could have been easily stopped.even elites cant cross unroaded forests

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi
I cant remember the details now, and i didnt post them in our forum(only mentioned that i did it). basicly i just used the workshop to change the production of a certain unit type to another unit type and avoided the mineral loss along the way. [i had underrushed a unit and was faced with either losing turns and building it anyway or settling for a weaker unit-i improvised instead)

Ah yes. I assume you retired the unit design in the workshop, causing production to switch to stockpile energy, which saves the accumulated minerals.

Or lack of skilled play at all, perhaps. I find it hard to imagine a good player being unable to outperform anyobdy in acdg3 in a SP game. people have transcended before the date we are currently at. the econ in general seems to be a bit off-i have a SP game as gaians 2170 with 160+ crawlers. there are hardly any crawlers in acdg3-why?

As you say that's in single player games. Those have the advantage that the human can build all worthwhile secret projects and doesn't have to worry about strong opposition. I don't know - do people also transcend that early in MP games (if they ever get that far)? Another thing: those transcendence records are usually with the University or Morganites. The first weren't in the game, and the latter had a little accident.

i have a SP game as gaians 2170 with 160+ crawlers. there are hardly any crawlers in acdg3-why?

You probably have a crawler-heavier style than average.

[Senethro]

I have to say, I don't like this. I also don't like using Industry SE switches or upgraded crawlers.

Still, can't say I'm surprised though.

[binTravkin]

It was fully expectable.

Another brilliant example of faulty programming..

[Kataphraktoi]

As you say that's in single player games. Those have the advantage that the human can build all worthwhile secret projects and doesn't have to worry about strong opposition. I don't know - do people also transcend that early in MP games (if they ever get that far)? Another thing: those transcendence records are usually with the University or Morganites. The first weren't in the game, and the latter had a little accident.

Ive heard reports of STS researched by the 2190s in a 4 player game.

[Kataphraktoi]

a new hurry method not yet discovered by anyone before.

Its so simple i cant believe no one discovered it before[edit:wouldnt imagine anyone had not discovered it before], but [just for kicks]there is another method of mineral free switching without queues, retiring, etc etc. It allows you to change the type of mineral (say Unit mineral to SP mineral) and then allow free switches to that type. this would allow you to change production of a prototype unit with say 300 minerals pumped into it, into a SP, without using maniac manuevere...a little untested by me for that purpose, but i am using it in a PBEM...or two...(or three? )

However i dont use free mineral switch bugs for 2ec\min SP or whatnot...normally before i get SP i stockpile minerals by building say netnodes or energy banks-then i can convert mins into crawlers at no loss.

This is by using the governer to switch production. Say i have netnode with 22 mins...i tab 'discover' and viola, making a CP. Can now switch the CP to crawler at no cost. Of course turn governer off after, and you may need to mess with its preferences also.

-Ctphrct

[bluetemplar]

I've made a table which appears when you want to huryy production (goes up to 21 minerals but I might increase it further if needed).

I find it lot better than alt-tab each time to the pdf file...

[bluetemplar]

I've tested it, and switch to governor doesn't work... it simply doesn't tell you about the minerals lost...

When retiring the prototype I also have a wierd bug: the prototype name and "Stockpile Energy" are surimpressed on each other on the map.
Another thing: contrairily to the normal retool, if after this manipulation you choose another item to work on, the minerals are lost definetely...
EDIT: like when a pod instabuilds you an item

[Maniac]

Originally posted by bluetemplar
I've tested it, and switch to governor doesn't work... it simply doesn't tell you about the minerals lost...

My experience as well.

When retiring the prototype I also have a wierd bug: the prototype name and "Stockpile Energy" are surimpressed on each other on the map.

Doesn't that problem disappear though by just shifting the map a little?

Another thing: contrairily to the normal retool, if after this manipulation you choose another item to work on, the minerals are lost definetely...
EDIT: like when a pod instabuilds you an item

So maniacal rushing doesn't work for you? Or do you mean with Kataphraktoi's method?

Btw, I'll include your hurry table in a next SMAniaC update.

[bluetemplar]

2-case scenario: (just tested)
When you retire a unit normally built, you can change production (from stockpile) ONCE in the same turn without penalties. (Your "manoeuvre")

When you retire an pod-popped instabuilt unit, and you leave the base in stockpile energy, you can retool to anything, how much time you want the NEXT turn. (the minerals are carried on the next turn but you get normal stockipe energy)
IMHO this was the method used by Shawnmcc to rushbuild his SP's...

There is no way (AFAIK) to get complete retooling from a pop-popped instabuilt facility, furthermore if you change to another item, all instabuilt minerals are lost!

[Maniac]

Originally posted by bluetemplar
When you retire an pod-popped instabuilt unit, and you leave the base in stockpile energy, you can retool to anything, how much time you want the NEXT turn. (the minerals are carried on the next turn but you get normal stockipe energy)
IMHO this was the method used by Shawnmcc to rushbuild his SP's...

Never thought of that. Is this use accepted, or considered cheating?

[bluetemplar]

I think that this use was not known of...

[mmontgomery]

Originally posted by Maniac


Never thought of that. Is this use accepted, or considered cheating?

I don't know what is considered normal PBEM conventions, but the local Austin, Texas group that I occasionally play TCP/IP games consider everything that has been discussed in this thread as cheating, except upgrading supply crawlers and using them to rush SPs and Prototypes.

As for stockpile energy, we don't worry about the normal stockpile energy following a build (it is just too much trouble), but any kind of intentional exploit of stockpile energy is also considered cheating.

It is rather silly for victory in what should be a great strategy game to hinge on knowing more programming loopholes to exploit than your opponent.

[Chaos Theory]

Originally posted by mmontgomery
It is rather silly for victory in what should be a great strategy game to hinge on knowing more programming loopholes to exploit than your opponent.

[Dygash]

Just wanted to say this has totally made a difference in my gaming, i never saw the point in crawlers before now i use them on SP's all the time, it's always in my strategy, also learning how to make crawler parks but admittedly i am not very good at this once i can do it right i can learn how to make research cities. I'm gonna have to learn how to sort out drones soon, been playing for years on and off and although its my all time favourite game i am terrible at it. Also just bought the expansion so when it arrives i will have to learn all over again.