ICS effectivly cannot be beaten ,

[Leon Trotsky]

http://apolyton.net/forums//showthread.php?postid=1030765#post1030765

[Koriand'r]

must be that tasty coriander smell wafting in on the breeze bin

[binTravkin]

/me hates corianders..

[Frankychan]

Originally posted by Archaic
ICS's biggest vulnerability in the mid to late game is to Planet Busters. The closer you're packed, the more that'll go boom.

In the early game, it's to a simple rover rush. Opponents could potentially take as many as 3 bases a turn per rover, assuming the usual lack of defenders that comes standard with ICS, and unless you've already got your crawler teams up, you're not putting out enough mins or energy to get defenders up quick enough before you're overrun.

Really, the best way IMO to defeat ICS is to simply keep harassing the player with short, small attacks to divert his resources and interest. Avoid treaties or pacts, they'll only help them more than it helps you, gang up against them with other players if possible, and keep chipping away at their empire until they crumble.

Bingo.

Yes, I've been a witness to both the late game PB and the early game rover....or in other cases....mindworm rushes.

I'd agree that the if an opponent is starting the ICS approach, dog him early and often if he's your opponent.

Personally, I don't do the 1x1 ICS thing. Like I said in threads gone past, I try to do cluster ICS'ing. That way if something happens to one cluster, I'll have other clusters that will survive. And each cluster is self sufficient. Not as efficient as total ICS'ing...but I've been traumatized from early game disasters.

[Archaic]

Of course, if you're witness to a late game PB while ICSing, you've either been dogged to death during the early game and couldn't establish your lead, or you simply totally ****ed up your ICS, as there's no way an ICSing faction shouldn't hit ODP's before their opponents can PB them unless you've totally switched over to a rampaging hordes momentum game, rather than sticking to either the high energy or balanced approaches.

As for early game disasters...really, I think any ICSer who encounters an opponent early is in trouble anyway. Better to stick to pure ICS for the long term benifits to start with, and only switch over to a hybrid style (ie. No more thin expansion) once you encounter someone. Establishing those clusters might leave lots of room for a late game energy park (But who honestly builds those in PBEM's without already having a huge lead anyway?), but you lose so much turn advantage that the benifits of ICS can't be properly realized, and it becomes almost pointless to ICS at all.

I *would* avoid the 1x1 ultra dense style ICS however. It seems a lot more vulnerable to being quickly overrun in an attack than a 2x2 grid style (assuming no roads on non-compass points, except for mines and fungus avoidance), and I'm not yet convinced of its ability to do a "pure" ICS victory through research. It seems to rely far too much on a rampaging hordes endgame for that.

[Chaos Theory]

It's very easy to get PBs before an opponent has ODPs. By the time anyone has ODPs, the game should be over.

[binTravkin]

It's very easy to get PBs before an opponent has ODPs. By the time anyone has ODPs, the game should be over.

CT, that was alegorical, Archaic was pointing at the fact that if ICs is executed skillfully the player is sure to be ahead of other players who don't do ICS and he is sure to PB them first, rather than going for ODPs.

Another case if there are 2 ICSers who try to PB each other - then everything depends on how well they can place PBs.

[Frankychan]

Usually after I get Planet Busters, I forget about getting Orbital Defense Pods....it's a bad habit, I know. And in those games where I've lost my ICS'ed bases, I was using 'Horde" tactics...

that and I got side trackd by making fun things like Nuke Subs filled with PB's and other junk like that.

Lately it's been when Planet goes apesh** with those 25+ Demon Boils on each tile that have made me do the Cluster ICS'ing.

But I haven't had one of those incidents happen for a loooong time.

[Senethro]

I thought that worms couldn't appear in any of the 8 squares surrounding a base when a fungus pop appears, or am I completely wrong?

Goes to show how much fungus I tolerate near my bases.

[binTravkin]

IIRC Fungus+worms will appear in base/sensor radius if enough ecodamage.

[Kataphraktoi]

fungal towers can even apear on top of units,say crawlers and share the tile,requireing you to move the unit

i get alot of ecodamage clean minerals,who needs to know about them

[GeoModder]

You do.

[Kataphraktoi]

just spam more empath rovers

[GeoModder]

Empath artillery!
You'll never learn...

[Koriand'r]

funny you should be arguing against me senethro,as you seem to think ICS is quite good