should smac2 be liberal or conservitive?

[Senethro]

Fair enough. I like it except for the fact its too strong in some circumstances. And changing citizens en masse to thinkers is hella boring.

[PJayTycy]

Re: should smac2 be liberal or conservitive?

raildroad tycoon

these are 2 games that use a ''tileless'' system.of course,they still have tiles,just smaller and less noticable,if shown at all. if you look at either of these maps,you will notice a much better world,real mountains,almost an ariel photograph of terrian.

Poptop (the designers of Railroad Tycoon 3) are currently working on a turn-based wargame on this engine:

Shattered Union

I wrote a small program to actually import any picture to such a map. Some people used it with satellite photos to create very realistic worlds.

[Kataphraktoi]

regardless of success in the last 50 years,it didnt come about fully as a result of their own effort,as the last 1000 years before that show.without the west to export goods to and in essence slave labour,they wouldnt have gotten anywhere,just like ussual

btw,is there anyone besides pjay actually intending to have a serious discussian here or post something relavent?

[Senethro]

Cataphract: Incorrect, China became insular at one point early in last millenium. Prior to that, there is good reason their shipping sailed as far as Europe and America. However, one emperor destoryed all shipyards and ship designs. (because he was crazy like that).

Don't be so eurocentric.

[GeoModder]

You seem to forget the expansion they made into the so-called 'territories', their war with India, their intervention in Korea and Vietnam and so on.

And about trade, did you ever heard about the silk traderoute? If not some Chinese new group of rulers had decided to halt it (they wanted China back in isolation IIRC), the West may have taken quite a bit longer to try to find a new traderoute to the 'Indies' over the seas. It was the West which had become dependent on some of the goods brought through it, not the other way around.

[Jamski]

To return to the OP's suggestions...

If the game is not tile-based, and if the game is not turn-based, then its not really SMAC is it?

[paramir]

I think smac is still smac wihtout tiles, but not without turns

[Kataphraktoi]

Cataphract: Incorrect, China became insular at one point early in last millenium. Prior to that, there is good reason their shipping sailed as far as Europe and America. However, one emperor destoryed all shipyards and ship designs. (because he was crazy like that).

Don't be so eurocentric.

i cantt claim to know alot about this,but i thought they spent most of their history in self inflicted isolation?

And about trade, did you ever heard about the silk traderoute? If not some Chinese new group of rulers had decided to halt it (they wanted China back in isolation IIRC), the West may have taken quite a bit longer to try to find a new traderoute to the 'Indies' over the seas. It was the West which had become dependent on some of the goods brought through it, not the other way around.

Actually i was referring to the last 50 years or so.they have a very nice balance of exporting vs importing,and there is one greedy,overconusming country that if exports to got cut,the chinese econ would be in some danger(all those goods and no fat people to buy em)...i in no way meant that before 1900's they were slaves to europe.i agree the west was dependent on them...

their intervention in Korea and Vietnam and so on.

those wars were lost because of communist subterfuge and politics being involved.if mc authur had been allowed to fight(a real hero for america btw) he could have toasted the commies,chinese help or not.and veitnam,our troops were held back again for political reasons. airstrikes and artillery cant win a war alone.we could whoop the commies any day and we did then in actual combat

If the game is not tile-based, and if the game is not turn-based, then its not really SMAC is it?

i dunno.i was more thinking of capturing the essence of smac and its fun spirit of going to the stars and believable sci-fi then making a stricly linear 'update'

[binTravkin]

if mc authur had been allowed to fight(a real hero for america btw) he could have toasted the commies

So we're clear about China, but this quote reminds me of general Patton in WW2 who claimed that his U.S. 3rd tank army could get to Moscow in a month if allowed to..

i dunno.i was more thinking of capturing the essence of smac and its fun spirit of going to the stars and believable sci-fi then making a stricly linear 'update'

It has to be TBS to be SMACX, but everything else really could change if it has the correct direction.

[Urban Ranger]

Tileless is okay, though ultimately you will have tiles, because your delta can't be infinitely small.

Real time, no. Big no no. Simultaneous combats is a good idea, though. The only thing is the computer players must not cheat by peeking at your (the human player's) moves.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Cataphract887
those wars were lost because of communist subterfuge and politics being involved.if mc authur had been allowed to fight(a real hero for america btw) he could have toasted the commies,chinese help or not.

McAurthur was a big idiot best known for his egotism. At the end of the Korean War the West (read: the US) had more troops on the ground than the other side, and was still losing.

[binTravkin]

had more troops on the ground than the other side, and was still losing.

Yeah, I remember reading something about superior tactics of Vietnamese.. ..something about the partisan tactics developed in USSR (and tested in WW2, Africa, Korea and at last Vietnam) during 1930s - 1960s..

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

McAurthur was a big idiot best known for his egotism. At the end of the Korean War the West (read: the US) had more troops on the ground than the other side, and was still losing.

The U.N. was neither more numerous nor losing. Take a quick peek at the casualties for the war and the outcome. Status quo ante bellum in a defensive war is a victory for the defender.

.

[binTravkin]

We're gone offtopic here..

My thoughts are:

TBS: definitely
Simultaneous: interesting
Tileless: to an extent
Unified resources: this must be worked around a bit.

[Urban Ranger]

Some time ago some of us were discussing ways to make Civ more realistic by completely remove the ability to found new cities at arbitrary locations. Instead, towns (cities) will appear as time goes by, at places where conditions are best to attract people to settle.

Though that might not work with Alpha Centauri.