Vote for SMAC2 at firaxis.com

[Kataphraktoi]

i DID NOT just see that

*rubs eyes*

how is the 'idea' firaxis property??

and just why would you need smac1 to run a cIV mod?

[PJayTycy]

He means you can't just copy the existing smac pictures to make a CIV mod. Besides the legal issues, it would also be impossible because of 2D <=> 3D. :-)

I don't think there would be a problem by drawing your own pictures, to look like the existing ones.

[GeoModder]

And I think Mart means no CIV mod as well, but writing his own stuff. So no copyright problems except for using Firaxis stuff if the release is independent from any Firaxis game.

[Mart]

It is so-called intelectual property, the way I understand. Creation of that whole imaginary world costed Firaxis some effort. Making anything new from it what might endanger their benefits would be not fair. If Firaxis decides do a sequel, then any other new creation, particularly "freeware", might steal potential customers, and since SMAC is theirs, they might legaly pursue their rights. And besides, I would not do it even they could not do anything about it, coz its their work.

It is different, when they resign from making a sequel, but they wish still to sell existing game. It still has like over 70 known bugs, and I discovered also more not included in this 70+ number. SMAC comunity suffers because of that. In this case, I think, such freeware might increase sale of the old game and Firaxis should be happy that there is someone keeping their product still alive. At least I would be if I were them.

[GeoModder]

AFAIK, no new SMAC(X) CD's are burned anymore?
So I guess it boils down then to asking a clarification on Firaxis itself.

[Mart]

I think SMACX may still appear in some packages, like 4-5 games for 10$-20$. This way I bought my SMAX actually. Before purchasing SMAX on ebay for $100 was a bit discouraging for me. Original SMAC I got fresh within first weeks after its release. I loved civ2 and still do. And smac was much better than I expected. This game is like wine. The older, the better.

If on official Firaxis site they ask particularly for SMACX sequel, and it has the votes it has, I think there is great chance of coming into life. And if it will be all we can wish for that would be great. I think Firaxis might follow the civ4 path here, simply asking such comunities like this ours here what features game should have. And in this case we might put effort telling them. Let us hope it would not be the Master of Orion 3 case with subsequent FreeOrion, if you know the story.

[PJayTycy]

Originally posted by mart7x5
It is so-called intelectual property, the way I understand. Creation of that whole imaginary world costed Firaxis some effort. Making anything new from it what might endanger their benefits would be not fair. If Firaxis decides do a sequel, then any other new creation, particularly "freeware", might steal potential customers, and since SMAC is theirs, they might legaly pursue their rights. And besides, I would not do it even they could not do anything about it, coz its their work.

You would ofcourse not be able to use the name "SMAC", maybe not even the name Alpha Centauri (although that's just a name of a star and Firaxis doesn't own that star). But, they sure don't own the monopoly on games that use this world. There are a lot of civ-alternatives (freeciv, c-evo, ...) which re-use the Civilization idea, there is nothing wrong with that.

[Mart]

It is about using more advanced concepts, so that would be "enhancement", like secret projects, terraforming, units with their abilities, though expanded. Making a separate game is no problem. Using advanced concepts is, anyone knowing original SMAC would say: "it's smac with a bit of changes and additions". But you write a good point. Maybe making an alternative game is the direction, though it would no-longer feel like SMAC. After all, we play SMAC and not Civ2 for example. And smac has so much stuff copied from civ2.
----------
Anyway, do we know when the poll ends? when they announce what decision will be made regarding which game will be remade?

[Xian]

I think they should wait a bit longer. Ideally, they would return to SMAC with the technology to better realize the original intent.

Im not talking about graphics- I mean an improved economic simulation (with independent economic units separate from the state, corporations unions councils or whatever), adapting AI (goal based with customizable logic), much more customizable civilizations (no factions, or dynamic factions, drastically bigger SE trees) a REAL ecological simulation (not just a general 'your polluting is bad' but an actual logical game within a game of avoiding poisoning rivers, aquifiers, avoiding temperature changes while balancing industrial exansion) and so on

All these things would require planning and technology that hasn't matured, but i think would be closer to the original intent of the designers.

Of course I voted for SMAC 2 since this is possibly now or never, but still

[laurentius]

Voted for smac2 but unfortenately we are losing to Colonization 33 to 37 %

[Hydro]

Xian - be careful what you wish for. Your ideas are great, but likely to more than a tad complicated. There was a recent game of amazing complexity that tried to offer everything to everyone in empire, economic simulation, epic battles, diplomacy, and 'mood', and ended up pleasing almost no one due to the very complexity it touted (which made parts of the game impenetrable) and coding errors made worse due to complexity and the Law of Unintended Consequences (which wrecked gameplay and infuriated gamers).

Mantra: Remember Moo3!

Hydro

[Ka Plewy]

MOO3 suffered more from changes in direction/design a few months just before it was released, than from complex design. Bhuric on the ataricommunity forums has done a fabulous job of improving the game that the developers didn't have the time or desire to do.

[Senethro]

Intellectual property Q: should we email Firaxis and ask their permission about Civ4 SMAC 1.5 just so don't waste a lot of effort making it, only to be shut down?

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by Senethro
Intellectual property Q: should we email Firaxis and ask their permission about Civ4 SMAC 1.5 just so don't waste a lot of effort making it, only to be shut down?

Heah Senethro,

if you look back at page 3 from this thread you'll see that the Firaxian Trip is essentially saying "heah, go for it!". FYI.

However, I think thats the least of our worries: the programming (both learning what has already been coded versus what we'd need to code ourselves) as well as learning Python are going to be significant hurdles.
The are other, more inocuous issues as well, such as when Firaxis comes out with patches for cIV, why thre is going to be a good chance that some, if not all patches, will interfere either with code we have already addressed (meaning we'd have to go back over the same areas), or change areas that we had alrady hashed out how to attack.....
If you want, I'll send ou an E-Mail chain where bT and I have been discussing a lot of the nuts and bolts of whats needed here. Let me know.


D

[Senethro]

Yes, please, send it over. To be quite honest, I'm wondering if we should make this official and start a website/forum. Would Apolyton support a modding effort by providing us a forum?

A bit nearer to Civ4 release date when people are talking about it I'll target various game/modding forums and try to recruit. It would be helpful to have a website, a mission statement and a few staff in place by then.