Vote for SMAC2 at firaxis.com

[binTravkin]

Assuming one is fluent enough in C++ to be capable of writing (or removing) code to accomplish these things - then the answer is yes.

Yes, yes, YES!

I got a rumour somewhere that it will be in Python. Man, as a programmer I've only heard about it.

But C++ - I was good at TPascal, so it won't be a prob to learn this one (they're pretty alike).

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by Trip

Assuming one is fluent enough in C++ to be capable of writing (or removing) code to accomplish these things - then the answer is yes.

Well, I am more of a "hack and hope" programmer myself....

Regardless, thanx for the feedback - I'm sure it will be useful to our community as we contemplate taking on this task or not.

Originally posted by binTravkin
Yes, yes, YES!

I got a rumour somewhere that it will be in Python. Man, as a programmer I've only heard about it.

But C++ - I was good at TPascal, so it won't be a prob to learn this one (they're pretty alike).

You do understand the magnitude of what is inferred by Trip above? I'm estimating (conservatively) about 6 months here, even if we are porting over a lot of the old text files, SP movies, and *cough* caviar files.


D

[binTravkin]

You do understand the magnitude of what is inferred by Trip above? I'm estimating (conservatively) about 6 months here, even if we are porting over a lot of the old text files, SP movies, and *cough* caviar files.

As one of my colleges once said (when asked by CTO about possible schedule):
"How in the hell I can know when it will be finished if I haven't seen what must be done yet?!"



But seriously:

If a feature is already implemented (say equvalent of Super Former ability or any chassis/power (that's unified armor and weapon)) then taking it to a txt file is not a big deal.
If not, then it depends if there's something similar in the code (like with Special Abilities), so we can use it as draft, or something entirely new must be coded (seems the case with Convoy weapon).

[Senethro]

I've good news on that BinTravkin. In Civ4 military units gain special abilities for winning battles. Things such as Jungle Combat or the ability to use enemy roads. I think it will be possible to use it.

[PJayTycy]

Civ4 doesn't use seperate defensive/offensive strenghts anymore though. The only thing that matters for a battle is:

=> Special abillities (modifiers with regards to opposing unit type, your tile, your opponents tile).
=> Number of hitpoints.

I think this will be one of the hardest things to re-implement. The rest should be possible: new reactors are just units with more hitpoints, planets = barbarians, design workshop can be worked around by providing all regularly used units predefined.

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by binTravkin
I got a rumour somewhere that it will be in Python. Man, as a programmer I've only heard about it.

If I readed things correctly, Python is the scripting language for modding things in cIV like altering units, facilities and other ingame mechanics, next to creating other scenarios.
But this C++ hint means that more of the source code will be open for tinkering.

[Gnool]

I just found this at civfanatics.com -

The July 2005 issue of PC Gamer magazine contains a new preview of Civilization IV.

In the preview, Firaxis revealed that beginning in June of last year, a hand-picked group of around 60 hardcore Civilization fans has been playing the game and giving feedback to the Civ4 developers in a private online forum.

Talking about the Civ4 software developers kit (SDK), lead designer Soren Johnson stated that it will include "all the AI and all the game code". "This has been done a lot with shooters, but it's never really been explored with strategy games." With the SDK, modders will be able to do everything from writing their own game types to pretty much building their own game based loosely on Civilization, changing literally anything they want.

Based on that, it looks to me that we will definitely be able to make an authentic SMAC mod!

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by binTravkin


As one of my colleges once said (when asked by CTO about possible schedule):
"How in the hell I can know when it will be finished if I haven't seen what must be done yet?!"

And that is also probably true here as well in that until one (or some) of us sees the actual Civ4 code and is able to walk thru it subroutine by subroutine and determine the extent of the actual changes that need to be implemented, why we have no clue as to the actual magnitude of a SMAC Mod. I think to a large extent, based on personal experience, why we are facing a very large task, and with few resources...


D

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by Gnool
In the preview, Firaxis revealed that beginning in June of last year, a hand-picked group of around 60 hardcore Civilization fans has been playing the game and giving feedback to the Civ4 developers in a private online forum.
Based on that, it looks to me that we will definitely be able to make an authentic SMAC mod!

I guess I have to ask why were no SMAC'ers invited into the group of 60 in order to assess what was entailed/ needed for a SMAC Mod? If only one of us had been invited a year ago, we could have given great feedback all during these last 12 months as to what would (at the very least) make our lives easier for a SMAC Mod, or at the very barest of levels give one of us a heads up as to an enlightened approach as to how to attack the C++ coding in order to build a SMAC Mod....


D

[Mart]

Darsnan,
Most of civ players, as far as I noticed, consider science fiction a disease. I wonder what actual altitude is still considered ok and what belonging to that "ill" space stuff. I had some conversation about space exploration in civ4 ideas forum. They feel aversion to it. How then they could invite someone loving sci-fi?

[binTravkin]

I think this will be one of the hardest things to re-implement.

I think we could first try to not re-implement it.
After all, we already have SMACX.
Making the mod exactly the same is no use IMO, if you want to play SMACX, take it and play.
I imagine that mod will be something different from SMACX, something evolved.
If we find that the "hitpoint" concept (possibly with some workaround) works well, we can live with it.

I for myself don't want another SMACX, I want SMACX 2!

And Im not gonna rewrite the code just to get it similar to SMACX.

and with few resources...

I've been thinking about this.
If we really face lack of resources we can make the mod a bit commercial.
Sell it say for a fee of $5 - 10 (which should more than worth it and I think could compensate for the resources a bit) and I can recruit a couple of people who'd work for it (wages in Latvia are low, you know ).

I guess I have to ask why were no SMAC'ers invited into the group of 60 in order to assess what was entailed/ needed for a SMAC Mod? If only one of us had been invited a year ago, we could have given great feedback all during these last 12 months as to what would (at the very least) make our lives easier for a SMAC Mod, or at the very barest of levels give one of us a heads up as to an enlightened approach as to how to attack the C++ coding in order to build a SMAC Mod....

Yeah, blame Firaxis!

[Mart]

I have written one game in visual basic, although not commercial I have completed that project. I have also other attempts to write some interesting games, but since I have now quite high expectations from it, none of my attempts are completed yet. So I may share some insights as to writing a new game.

The most crucial are:
- good idea
- detailed design

The idea SMACX2 is not enough. We would need exactly know what would be new/different in SMACX2

A good design is what takes the most of thinking and maybe time from a casual developer. What may seem excellent when designing only since we put so much effort into it may turn out often as very poor and dissapointing in the final effect. The problem is that until someone actually tests the game by playing it, its playability may be unknown.

Coding is really not that much difficult, especially when someone is knowing the language he/she writes in.

And here comes a problem. If using some scripting language not well known to a person writing a mod in it, only cause that scripting language is the only allowed here may in fact at least several times prolong the time of writing the code.

Different persons designing a game and writing a scripts/code? I will give an example. In the department I have been working at the university, we had an instrument in need of writing a software for it. The company that sold us the instrument hired some other profesional software company to do it. The subject for which the instrument makes measurements was a "black magic" for those guys (I mean they knew nothing about it) They worked professionaly I am sure, but the final software they did is complete sh*t. I simply know it cause I need to do experiments with this instrument and this software.

[binTravkin]

And here comes a problem. If using some scripting language not well known to a person writing a mod in it, only cause that scripting language is the only allowed here may in fact at least several times prolong the time of writing the code.

No worries, I learn fast and I'll probably learn C++ before doing anything. It's not that much different from other languages I know, the most important thing in programming is not to know the language, but have "programmer's thinking" and understanding about the structure of language (there are only several types of structure and the one of C++ I know because QB and TP has the same, but a bit simpler one).

Different persons designing a game and writing a scripts/code? I will give an example. In the department I have been working at the university, we had an instrument in need of writing a software for it. The company that sold us the instrument hired some other profesional software company to do it. The subject for which the instrument makes measurements was a "black magic" for those guys (I mean they knew nothing about it) They worked professionaly I am sure, but the final software they did is complete sh*t. I simply know it cause I need to do experiments with this instrument and this software.

Noone's going to hire a company. I was talking about a couple of well known-to-me people to which I can explain what must be done in programmer's language which they now, not in user's in which you probably tried to explain.

And I have had such cases in my programmers career as well. Your example is on the extreme end..

The idea SMACX2 is not enough. We would need exactly know what would be new/different in SMACX2

Okay, I probaly didn't spell it out correctly:
1. we need bugs fixed and if we code it, we can do it.
2. we need better AI (no matter which version)
3. there's a wishlist for SMAC 2 already which can be taken in count.

[Lord_Icewind]

Right peeps...
I must admit I have almost none to zero idea of programing (wait! I once had this program with a "turtle"...what was it called? XD)
But I am eagerly waiting for Civ IV after reading this post thanks to
binTravkin...and I sure have many ideas about how a SMAC mark II could be!
I'll just wait and see how all this develops...

EDIT: Spelling mistakes that would kill your eyes in a fiery blaze eliminated

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by mart7x5
The idea SMACX2 is not enough. We would need exactly know what would be new/different in SMACX2

I can see two camps developping here. First camp would be those who want a Civ4 mod of SMAC(X) that is essentially a complete clone of the original, right down to the last fungus-covered rock. Second camp would be those that would want a SMAC(X)2 which I envision entailing a different storyline/ Factions/ Planet. Both approaches I think would guarrantee an enhanced AI over what exists today. I would personally think that the SMAC(X) clone should be our first attempt, as it would be the easiest, as well as have the broadest support among our fanbase. From there we then go our seperate ways and build other mods (I for one am extremely interested in replacing Planet and its minions with an intelligent alien race). However, a better approach might be to hold a poll in our community and see what the population wants, and then we focus our efforts on that.

Originally posted by binTravkin
3. there's a wishlist for SMAC 2 already which can be taken in count.

I think this is another reason why I am hesitant to build a SMAC(X)2 (as opposed to a SMAC(X) clone), as we would never be able to incoporate all of the wishes, thus potentially eliminating the desire for participation from some of our community. A SMAC(X) clone would conceivably have the broadest appeal IMO. However, here again, if we post a poll, I'm sure we'll get good direction from those that care/ would probably be involved.


D