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Are Needlejets worthless or neccessary...

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  • #16
    Oh and to answer the question . . .

    Needles are neither necessary or worthless. I can make an effective attack force without them but they have their uses
    You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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    • #17
      choppers do cause police problems though right? Just like needlejets?

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      • #18
        needlejest cause HUGE police problems, even when inside their homebase (at least the bombers do) not sure about choppers though

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        • #19
          ...but's that's what the 1-1-1 Police do.

          "Teach those Drones a lesson!!!"
          Despot-(1a) : a ruler with absolute power and authority (1b) : a person exercising power tyrannically
          Beyond Alpha Centauri-Witness the glory of Sheng-ji Yang
          *****Citizen of the Hive****
          "...but what sane person would move from Hawaii to Indiana?" -Dis

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          • #20
            yeah I was messing around with copters today. I don't know why I began using them less. Though I should mention I was fighting the believers who weren't technologically advanced. I was going up against 3resonance units. I could usually get about 2 or 3 inside a base before they become too damaged.

            Though copters such for psi combat . spore launchers were kicking my ass.

            I just finished my game going up against the aggressive factions. Spartans, hive, believers, drones, caretakers, and usurpers. On huge map of planet.

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            • #21
              I don't use them much, but then I don't go so much for ari units themselves. Normally I use them for short range attacks and creating new bases not too far inland when playing as the Pirates.

              Sometimes, just to annoy the AI I give a transport cruiser carrier deck and put land and air units on. I normally unload everything land based by a base, sail off and then attack them with the needlejets.
              Which makes it far easier to take the base.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Dissident
                Though copters such for psi combat . spore launchers were kicking my ass.
                The much maligned Spore Launcher, while still not as good as a standard mind worm, has its place in air and sea defense. Especially if said SL is of the "independent" variety. Even if not independent, you can leave em in a patch of fungus along shorelines for sea-to-coast bombardment defense. But I prefer to keep em in a forward base as air defense. Since natives attack and defend at a 1:1 ratio on sea and air, natives strip that Plasma Shard or Tacyon Bolt aircraft down to hand gun status. Since you are fighting on a 1:1 scale, those +25% for sensors and defending a base add up to a win. Even if they are packing the empath ability, they'd still only break even.
                "They’re lazy troublemakers, and they all carry weapons." - SMAC Manual, Page 59 Regarding Drones
                "Without music, life would be a mistake." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
                "If fascism came to America it would be on a program of Americanism." -- Huey Long
                "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in any country." -- Hermann Goering

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by livid imp


                  The much maligned Spore Launcher, while still not as good as a standard mind worm, has its place in air and sea defense. Especially if said SL is of the "independent" variety. Even if not independent, you can leave em in a patch of fungus along shorelines for sea-to-coast bombardment defense. But I prefer to keep em in a forward base as air defense. Since natives attack and defend at a 1:1 ratio on sea and air, natives strip that Plasma Shard or Tacyon Bolt aircraft down to hand gun status. Since you are fighting on a 1:1 scale, those +25% for sensors and defending a base add up to a win. Even if they are packing the empath ability, they'd still only break even.

                  Good point. Native life has less utility on the attack as the game goes on since they are simply too expensive slow and weak. Anyone with a tech edge should be going conventional. But for someone behind in the tech race, worms/natives can provide reasonable defence where it would otherwise not exist. The only downfall is that if you are not getting Planet captures, the natives still tend to be rather expensive. Whenever I see an opponent going "native" I up my production of cheap empath units and consider a switch to "Green" ( if possible).

                  Even then, the defender probably still has more defensibility than they would with their obsolete conventional units
                  You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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                  • #24
                    Yea, I should have mentioned that they still aren't really worth building. If you happen to have them, don't disband them, use em for defense. A Tacyon Bolt Jet has twice the chance of winning against a 1-3-1 AAA Garrison, than it does against a Spore Launcher. That Spore Launcher is worth a 1-6-1 AAA Garrison against a Tacyon Bolt Jet. Let's face it, no one has Probablity defense a the time they get Plasma Shard or Tacyon Bolt. Natives are the only way to get that kind of air defense, that early. It might be the only time natives are worth building.

                    If your enemy starts using empath jets, then you have forced him to spend at least 50% more on his air force. If it comes down to a battle of attrition, that will be the killer
                    "They’re lazy troublemakers, and they all carry weapons." - SMAC Manual, Page 59 Regarding Drones
                    "Without music, life would be a mistake." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
                    "If fascism came to America it would be on a program of Americanism." -- Huey Long
                    "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in any country." -- Hermann Goering

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by livid imp


                      If your enemy starts using empath jets, then you have forced him to spend at least 50% more on his air force. If it comes down to a battle of attrition, that will be the killer
                      Well yes and no -- my empath gun unit will be cheaper than my vanilla shard unit but the problem for the attacker is that the best defender defends so if you cheap out on the weapon, a native stacked with a conventional unit can be a decent defensive combo.

                      Personally I might build something like a chaos empath unit. Its weapon is still good enough to beat the conventional defenders in your scenario . . .But don't mind me as I often have all kinds of different units for difefrent purposes. heck I'll still be building impact units even when I have attack 13 weapons.
                      You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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                      • #26
                        I used to build cheapo empath units. But the best defender screws that up. I had some laser empath units (ground units in this case) from early in the game. But instead of attacking the native life, the 3-res defenders kick in.

                        The only alteranitive is to put empath on my chaos and tachyon (what I was using at the time) units. That means I have to take the clean reactor off.

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                        • #27
                          Why do you have clean reactors on chaos/tachyon units? You'll never recoup the cost unless you like obsolete units.
                          "Cutlery confused Stalin"
                          -BBC news

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                          • #28
                            Okay, so I played around with both copters and noodles...

                            Apparently, when a needlejet looses health, its range is affected...so a badly damaged needlejet way out in the field may not be able to come home...

                            On the other hand, a copter's range isn't effected by damage, and copters can attack more than once...yet the original range isn't quite as far...

                            On thing that I haven't tried yet is if copters can be attacked by non-sam units when they make "emergency landings"

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Chaos Theory
                              Why do you have clean reactors on chaos/tachyon units? You'll never recoup the cost unless you like obsolete units.
                              Agreed

                              I put clean on formers and some garrisons-- My top flight weaponry is out there to fight and die and I often don't find it survives long enough to make clean worthwhile
                              You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Commy

                                Apparently, when a needlejet looses health, its range is affected...so a badly damaged needlejet way out in the field may not be able to come home...
                                Weird I have NEVER seen this. If my needle is 95% damaged it still makes it home even if it attacked at maximum range
                                You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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